Berger 185 BT LR - Starting & Max Load?

[crewchef]

Anyone have starting and max load for these bullets in .308 with Varget? Berger website lists 37.0 - 41.6 but that seems low, maybe they're being a little (lot) conservative? Doing search here and some other sites I've seen posted loads ranging from 41.6 up to 45.0. Hodgdon doesn't list a 185 but shows 41.0 to 44.0 for a 190 (different type bullet though).

Anyway, if anyone is shooting these and has some info I would appreciate it. I'll be using Winchester brass and Federal (may try Wolf or Tula) primers. Barrel is Krieger 1 in 12, 30".

 

[RDavies]

Only very limited experience, but yesterday a freind was using 43gns Varget with good accuaccy at 800yds and no pressure signs.

 

[Terry]

What cartridge?

 

[crewchef]

Tried to make sure to include enough details and left that out, duh. It's .308

 

[spclark]

Gonna depend a lot on your particular chamber and barrel dimensions. 42 grains is a good place to begin testing, keeping in mind that loads for Varget can vary a LOT from batch to batch.

It's reportedly been getting slower in recent years, perhaps an element of safety built in... right up until you buy into a batch that suddenly goes the other way.

Those are fine bullets though for 308; I have a box I'm interested in trying out for Palma in 2012: Bartlein 5R 29" 1:12.

 

[BlackEagle]

I'm starting to load these same bullets in .308. I'm starting with Bergers recommendation and starting from 37 moving up to 42 grains of Varget. It is strange that almost all other recommendations I've found on the internet have starting loads close to or above Bergers recommended max!??? I decided to use increments of 0.5 grains from 37 to 39 grains then to go in increments of 0.3 grains from 39 to 42 doing a ladder test. Depending on how this goes, I might try working above 42 grains next time.

 

[jbpmidas]

I have a box that I will be working with for my new Brux barrelled 700. I am going to start at 42 for my ladder and go up in .2 grains, up to 44.

 

[dreever]

Bullets seated long will give less pressure. Bullets seated to magazine length will build pressure sooner. I measure case head expansion on a piece of new brass then measure after firing. In my opinion if it's more than .001 on that first firing it's to much. I generally shoot for less than .001 on the first firing. If your looking for flat primers, extractor marks, or sticky bolt lift way before you get there you'll have exceeded too much pressure.
Having said that. Brass can make a big difference also. Lapua is tough so that's what I use.
I have been using this bullet in Lapua brass, CCI 250 primers, 43.3 grains of Varget. 2610 fps from my 24 inch Bartlein 11 twist. Bullets seated to 2.885 which is max for my AI magazines. Start low and work up checking for pressure signs.

Danny

 

[crewchef]

Thanks for all the input. After a bunch of reading I feel prety confident there will be a good node somewhere in that 42 to 44 range so probably going to test in that range.

 

[BlackEagle]

Bullets seated long will give less pressure.

Is there a ballpark value for this relationship? I plan to seat to 2.860 or 2.870".

Also, is there a dependable way to use case head expansion measurements to detect high pressure if all my brass is once fired?

 

[jbpmidas]

As far as seating depth, I've been taught that once you start seating into the lands, pressure starts building again. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[BlackEagle]

As far as seating depth, I've been taught that once you start seating into the lands, pressure starts building again. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

That's correct. I'll still be .03 or .02" off the lands at this length.

 

[dreever]

Black Eagle,

You need a piece of new never fired brass from the same lot to give you a starting measurement for case head expansion. Ideally you'll load one at each powder charge then measure till you exceed the .001 expansion on the first firing. I generally do this as I break in a new barrel using the one shot and clean method. For example I'll load 0ne each at 42.5,42.7,43.0,43.3, 43.5 fire and measure them if the 43.5 lets say exceeds my .001 I'll back off a couple of tenths till I'm just under the .001 then I'll know what my max will be for chronographing and load development. After doing the one shot andclean for those half a dozen rounds I'll consider the barrel broken in and start shooting groups.

Danny

 

[BlackEagle]

Thanks Danny.

CREWCHEF, I loaded mine up last night and seating to 2.875" overal length 42 grains was compressed (but just barely.) I'm using once fired FC brass. I loaded a couple at 42.3 grains also. I don't know how people are loading 44 or 45 grains...

 

[Heavies]

Is not 44 or 45 grains of Varget for 155 class bullets? I would think that is too hot for 185s and 190s...

 

[crewchef]

BlackEagle, Federal brass is thicker so lower capacity. Experienced the same thing when I first started loading and ended up with a 43.4 Varget load under Sierra 175 SMK using Federal while everyone using Winchester brass was saying their good loads were 44.0+. At 44.0 I was getting compressed loads and 44.1 and up I was getting pressure signs. When using Federal brass my rule of thumb is subtract 1.0 from listed maximums.

To Heavies comment, I think 44 is probably max load (listed as max for 190's) with the 185's but I'll be approaching that very carefully. Won't know until I try but guessing there will be a good load/node somewhere under that and I won't push for last few FPS if I can find lighter load with tight vertical. So with Federal brass I would think 43 is max.

I'm not going to get a chance to load/shoot until later this month but will try to follow up once I get a chance to try these myself.

 

[XTR]

WHAT EVER ELSE YOU GET FROM THIS WORK UP TO IT.

I am using the 185 BTs in my 308. I too saw the max loads in the 42 gn range and started very low, and my first group of test loads didn't even get close to where I wanted to be.

I ended up at:

Varget: 44gn
Brass: Win
Primers: CCI200
!Seated very long! I am seating at 2.9+ OAL. If you seat to a mag length and push 0.1+ inches of bullet back into the case you may not like the result

That said, my 175SMK load is 44.5, so it kind of makes sense, and I may work up to see how the 185s shoot at 44.3 or so. I'm not getting any pressure signs. To the posted who was asking about 155s, they are more like 47gn of Varget.

 

[jbpmidas]

I completed my ladder test on these 185's lat week. My rifle is a 700 with Brux 10 twist. I seated the 185's .010 off the lands in prepped, 1x fired Win brass over Wolf primers. I loaded one each in .2 increments from 42.2 to 44.0. I saw no true pressure signs. Case expansion was consistet with .005 for the whole lot. The 44.0 grain had a slightly shiny spot on the headstamp, so I am calling 44.0 my practical max, although I know I could go higher if I desired.

 

[Keith Glasscock]

That is consistent with what I saw with the 185 Hybrid. Pity it wouldn't quite make it to the node... Some day, I'll back the charge down and shoot it at the next lower node. I'm thinking that it will be about 42.5 grains of Varget in my barrel. How much freebore do you have, and what kind of seating depth?

Heavies,
It depends on the brass. With Win brass, 47.0 is a safe load in my M852 chamber. 46.7 gets the job (great accuracy) done with no pressure signs in my rifles. If you can seat long, like 2.970" OAL, then the charge can go up more.

With Federal brass, I would be hesitant to even start at 44 grains. That stuff taught me an inexpensive lesson a couple of years ago. Even though I was using Hodgdon's starting load (developed on Win brass) I got a big, extruded ejector mark! Fortunately, I didn't damage anything and the case held together. For Federal brass, I use Sierra's data (developed in Fed brass).

 

[TonyR]

H4895 works very nicely with the 185 LRBT.