Hello, I have a new Savage rifle that likes Berger 105s. It has been shooting very good with 105 Bts shooting small clover leafs.,Sub 1/4' @100) I went to the 105 VLDS and it is still shooting good but a little bit of vertical that I am trying to correct. I have used the same powder & load as the bts. Does anyone have a quick fix suggestion for this problem. Thanks.
Berger 105 VLDS
- Thread starter Jeffsavage
- Start date
6mm BR, The VLDS are shooting 2s and 3s, but the groups are not clover leafing like the bts, I am using H4895 and have jambed 10 in and jumped the VLDS. It may be that I need to work on more seating depths or powder variations, was just wondering if anyone had might have any good suggestions before I started working on the load more. Thanks.
Jeff,
With all due respect, and fearing starting a conflict here, but you are wasting your time by shooting VLDs at anything under 300M.
Experience shows that 'flats' shoot inside the boat tails from 100 up to 200 yds. And they even shoot quite well up to 300M on a 'no wind' day.
Bottom end, if you wish to shoot little holes, shoot a flat base bullet, plenty to choose from. And if you shoot 600 yds and over, then experiment with the VLDs.
My 0.02 cents.
Andy
With all due respect, and fearing starting a conflict here, but you are wasting your time by shooting VLDs at anything under 300M.
Experience shows that 'flats' shoot inside the boat tails from 100 up to 200 yds. And they even shoot quite well up to 300M on a 'no wind' day.
Bottom end, if you wish to shoot little holes, shoot a flat base bullet, plenty to choose from. And if you shoot 600 yds and over, then experiment with the VLDs.
My 0.02 cents.
Andy
MarkS
Silver $$ Contributor
Jeffsavage,
A place to start is the seating depth. In my use of VLD's they like to be into the lands up to 0.020' lands making a square on the bullet.
Berger is saying now that they will way off the lands 0.040' or more, I have not tried that.
I have gone to the 108 Berger's, they will shoot about any place you put them.
Mark Schronce
A place to start is the seating depth. In my use of VLD's they like to be into the lands up to 0.020' lands making a square on the bullet.
Berger is saying now that they will way off the lands 0.040' or more, I have not tried that.
I have gone to the 108 Berger's, they will shoot about any place you put them.
Mark Schronce
I've found the B105VLD shoots better jumped .030' than seated into the lands. Learned this after finding the same thing to be true with the DTAC115 in another rifle.
There's merit in the suggestion VLD's are better out past 300m/y too but the point is one needs to learn by trial and error what works best for one's own needs & equipment.
Berger has a new 100 grain designed on the same principal as the 108 for those who don't already know.
There's merit in the suggestion VLD's are better out past 300m/y too but the point is one needs to learn by trial and error what works best for one's own needs & equipment.
Berger has a new 100 grain designed on the same principal as the 108 for those who don't already know.
If you feel good about your load and think you want to try something else I would try different seating depths with the 105 VLD's. I have usually seated them .11' to .20' past touching the lands but have found in a non-benchrest hunting rifle that VLD's will shoot jumped. Eric Stecker has a procedure for finding the 'sweet spot' in regards to seating depth jumping VLD type bullets on Berger's web site. The article is a little hard to find on the new web site but it's there and worth trying.
After you find the right seating depth you can then fine tune your load or maybe try a different primer to get your ES numbers as low as you can as this will help your vertical stringing as much as anything out at 600 yds or beyond.
Good luck,
Rodney
After you find the right seating depth you can then fine tune your load or maybe try a different primer to get your ES numbers as low as you can as this will help your vertical stringing as much as anything out at 600 yds or beyond.
Good luck,
Rodney
Moderator
Administrator
Some barrels like the 105 VLDs jammed, some like 'em jumped. With that particular bullet .015-.020 in the lands is usually a good place to start however.
As for 105s not being useful inside 600 yards, Jackie Schmidt did a 6BR railgun test for us with Berger 105s. Jackie produced a 5 target, 25-shot Agg at 200 yards around .18,and change) MOA. That is BR competitive at 200 WITH VLDs.
Remember that, by the 'rule of the square', the amount of wind-drift at 200 yards is roughly 4X that at 100 yards. The amount of wind-drift at 400 yards is roughly 16 times that at 100 yards.
This means that, in the real world, it may make sense to give up a little bit of theoretical accuracy for significantly better performance in the wind.
FWIW, in international 300M competition nobody shoots flat-base bullets. Granted that is position shooting, but it certainly demonstrates that the benefits of higher BC bullets can weigh in favor of their use well inside 500 yards.
In my own 6BR, the difference between flat-based bullets and Lapua 105s, at just 100 yards is quite small. The Berger 80s do shoot better, but not by a lot.
As for 105s not being useful inside 600 yards, Jackie Schmidt did a 6BR railgun test for us with Berger 105s. Jackie produced a 5 target, 25-shot Agg at 200 yards around .18,and change) MOA. That is BR competitive at 200 WITH VLDs.
Remember that, by the 'rule of the square', the amount of wind-drift at 200 yards is roughly 4X that at 100 yards. The amount of wind-drift at 400 yards is roughly 16 times that at 100 yards.
This means that, in the real world, it may make sense to give up a little bit of theoretical accuracy for significantly better performance in the wind.
FWIW, in international 300M competition nobody shoots flat-base bullets. Granted that is position shooting, but it certainly demonstrates that the benefits of higher BC bullets can weigh in favor of their use well inside 500 yards.
In my own 6BR, the difference between flat-based bullets and Lapua 105s, at just 100 yards is quite small. The Berger 80s do shoot better, but not by a lot.
Thanks guys for the info and suggestions. When I first started loading for my rifle which has a 26' 8 twist Douglas barrel I tried shooting the 80 Bergers and tried some 80 grain Fowlers which of course are flat base bullets, I couldn't get the consistency that I was looking for. I had some Berger 105 BTs and I tried some loads with them and I was instantly impressed with both the accuracy and consistency with this bullet even in the wind at 100 yards. I then tried the 105 Berger VLDS which are basically shooting close to one hole at 100 yards but usually with a very small vertical unlike the BTs which us ally clover leaf. I have started playing with seating depth and changed powders, and now I am getting more clover leaf groups with the VLDs.
I have always had better groups at close range with FB bullets in other rifles and calibers, until I went started shooting this 6BR...It likes the bts and vlds....who knows.
I have always had better groups at close range with FB bullets in other rifles and calibers, until I went started shooting this 6BR...It likes the bts and vlds....who knows.
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