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Berger 105 Hybrid Sticking

I have a Savage action with a Krieger 1 in 8 and .236 barrel. It was chambered with a PT&G .2704 neck and .104 freebore reamer. I can chamber Nosler 105 match, Sierra 107 SMK, Berger 95 VLD, and Berger 80 FB. And they all go to the lands. But I just bought some Berger 105 Hybrids and the bullet will stick in the bore before it gets to the lands. (see pic). I have never had this happen before. I called Berger and they told me as long as they were not over .2435" they were in spec. Krieger's web site says that the bore is .2430. And that mite just be it. All I have is a set of dial calipers and these seem to be about .24325 as far as I can tell with what I have. Just wondering if any of y'all have seen this.
 

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I don't know>>>that's quite unusual... I have a .272 neck and I never have problems with any bullet whatsoever.. You would think that the case itself would "stick" before the bullet does... Almost as if you have a conical neck from the reamer>>>where it is "larger" at the juncture between the neck and shoulder and tapers off as you near the lands.. I have never heard of that.. That would be a question for one of our riflesmiths on here... We have some good ones here, they may chime in and figure this one out for you..
 
How big are your other bullets,,,it sounds like the chamber is tite in the throat/FB area,,,the case neck never gets there ,,,just the bullets...are they shiney on one side??? ....lots of the Savage bbls are smithed by people that cant hold the specs on a chamber/reamer and there culd be a burr in there,,,look it over,,,measure everything...Roger
 
Interesting. My 105 AMax bullet seat in the cases with just a slight amount of pressure on the press handle. But my lot of 105 Hybrids will almost seat themselves with just the weight of the press handle. So I would assume my 105 Hybrids are ever so slightly less in diameter than the AMax bullets.
 
When I first loaded them, where I thought I was on the lands it was really at the point where they were sticking. And they didn't shoot good at all. I haven't been back due to 100 deg temps.

The circle goes all the way around the bullet.

The others a bit smaller. Not sure how much smaller. Not even a .001
 
the throat is usually ~.2435",,,,+/- a lil' ,,,,so you can see that if there is any crookedness/outa round/etc,,,they can bind upon entry ,,,,!!!!...Roger
 
Mic the bullet . You may discover they are quite "fat", and are quite a bit wider than Berger' s "standard" of .24350. Most reamer 6mm freebore widths are in the real-world range of .24360 to .24370. The hybrids you have are , I suspect, at least .24380+. IOW, they can't get cleanly thru the freebore to contact the lands. This can happen when dies are too worn before they are replaced..

You should also rule out excessive runout. If you are seating these with too much runout, this can add to your problem.....in this instance, it would be your fault and not the bullet OD.
 
cjames,
If I'm reading your post correctly, you are saying that the hybrid bullets stick in the chamber when you close the bolt. If so, remember what you are shooting and that it has two different shapes in the jacket. (Hybrid) Try seating them a little deeper and see if that makes the problem go away. I just shot a match yesterday at the Nationals using 105 Hybrids with very limited testing. I had a few that took a little more bolt pressure than others to seat which sounds like the same problem you are having. BTW, all the Hybrids I've shot on other calibers like to be jumped .010 to .040.
I hope this helps,
Lloyd
 
my Berger Hybrids are all "skinny",,,but I hav had em since the beginning,,,,I think shooter63 may be on to something,,,,most rifle inaccuracy problems are "self inflicted"....many people dont clean "good" enuff or "often" enuff,,,I have been a short range "B"enchrest shooter for 40 yrs and am obseessed with cleaning,,,,I must admit I am cleaning less now than when I was younger,,,I cant hardly run the cleaning rod bak-n-forth thru the bbl,,hahahah,,,,I use a can of top engine cleaner mixed with 4oz of Kroil to clean with and industrial strength ammonia floor stripper and Flitz/Semi-chrome the bbl at the end of every yardage (every 50-80 shots) and never have any copper or carbon problems,,,,,Roger
 
I talked to Dave Kiff today. He gave me the low down. It has to do with freebore. He told me the hybrids need more than .104 or they will stick in the freebore. He explained it to me before I even told him what bullet it was.
I can't remember what the freebore was for the Hybrids something like .115-.128. maybe. He also told me that they will not rub after a few hundred rounds down the tube. And I was told a reamer will not leave his shop under .2435 freebore dia and he personally checks everyone.
 
Take an old brush and wrap a patch around it even with its end. Turn it while you apply some JB with your thumb and index finger. You don't need a glob, just enough to work some into the cloth. Insert it into the breech until you feel resistance at the end of the throat, and give it a couple of dozen partial turns by gripping the rod and turning by hand, then patch out all of the JB with something like #9 and several patches, dry the bore and chamber, and try another Hybrid to see if you can reach the lands. If you don't, drop a bullet that has been spun in 0000 steel wool into the breech end of the barrel, point first, and give it a tap on its back with a dowel, hard enough to make rifling marke, then use a dowel or cleaning rod to knock it out, and inspect it for marks and/or scrapes. If it has rifling marks, and no scrapes it is not your throat diameter. The other cause could be a crooked round.
 
Dave Berg is correct. You are not understanding the conversation with Kiff.

Find someone with an accurate micrometer. Measure the OD of the bullet, and include the pressure ring in the OD measurement( the angled part of the bullet that transitions from the bearing surface to the boat tail).

Measure the hybrids. Measure also the bullets that DO reach the lands in your rifle. Report back here with the numbers on each. Until you do this, all of us are just guessing at any answers to your situation.

I am the last person that should debate Dave Kiff, and if he says that his reamers all leave the shop with .24350 freebore widths then I believe him. However, in the real-world of finished CHAMBER freebore widths, the width is sometimes larger or smaller. A little lathe issue, not enough cutting lube, etc etc etc can result in the CHAMBERED freebore width of more or less than .24350. Nothing man-made is perfect every time, and most reamer spec sheets include a statement on" fractional tolerances" to cover variances.
 
Well said, Bugman. I'm betting his 105 Hybrids have a slightly larger diameter than his other bullets. Dave Berg posted diameters for several lot #s. I would also like to hear what his lot # is.
My previous lot # of the 105 Hybrids was a tad fat, but my current lot # is much better.
 
Exactly Jack.

Pure and simple...the problem lies in the freebore DIAMETER. There are quite a few others running into the same problem with FAT Berger's. I have a .2435" fat lot and not even going to work with them until I have my new reamer with a .2438" FB diameter. I have one coming from Henriksen. My second choice would be JGS.
 
Out of the hundreds of reamers I make for Dashers ,BRX , BRDX , BR's and others . I find the majority of the customers that use the 105 , 107 bullets non Hybrid bullets have great results with the tried an true .104 freebore . Now for the bold elliptical Hybird most of the customers have been requesting .123 to .138 freebore as almost a unspoken standard . I have started stocking both because of the demand . That being said as dummy rounds come in from customers around the world using the hybrids I am kind of shocked folks are seating them anywhere from touching at .078 fb on BR's to .125 fb On the short necked Dasher and BRX type I have been seeing the 104 fb to .148 fb and a couple at .160 fb . But I have a lot of folks say they have sticking problems on a .104 or less with some of the Hybrids and I have gone into a lengthily email earlier with cjames ( hope he got it ) . I stock the reamers on the shelf with a blue box no turn .2704 neck and various freebore lengths all at .2435 pluss a few tenths throat's .I check dummy rounds every day with micrometers, Fifty thousand dollar 100X comparators and Laser imaging machines and I have never seen a Berger bullet measure over .2432 but I always check the parallel portion out side the case mouth not the back larger portion of the driving band. That's where you need the slip fit guidance to keep the projectile centered to the bore . If it enters the bore centerline it exits the bore centerline. Funny what people think the solution is ( .2436,7,8,9, ?) Precision close throats win no mater who you get your reamers from. Here's a tale that happens all the time I find very sad and true . I had a well known competitor order a 6MM Dasher with a .269 clean up neck and a .160 FB , I said what the hell do you want that for! Well he said that's what he was told by a keyboard gunsmith( we all know ). Well I made it for him and Sam chambered it for him and he could not get up out of the hole that year . Last year he called me and said Dave what is wrong , well I told him if you listen to people that like to feed their ego on the net , that don't know sh1t you loose time and money. I told him to send in the reamer and I shortened it to .132 per his seated round and, well he cleaned up and then some. Even made the keyboard gazette . Moral to the story listen to the folks because you can learn a lot but always ,always send in a dummy round if your not sure . One thing you can take to the bank , the 138 bucks I charge for a reamer is still a 138 bucks if you send in a dummy round and ask for a reamer print to approve before we start . AND MAKE SURE YOUR DIES MATCH. One thing I will guarantee, the rifle will shoot as good as you can read the wind,,,,,, if put together with care and good components. my .02 cents .. Thanks Dave Kiff
 

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