Benchrest Popularity and Growth

[gmr4]

Newly retired. I am trying to decide between 1000 yard BR or F- Class. So far Ive been shooting 1000 yards from a bench here in TN with a 6BRA / REM Action/ Brux. Ive achieved single digit SD by focusing and spending$ on good reloading components etc. I shoot pretty good with my setup. Anyway it’s time to kick it up a notch but here’s the thing.. it’s a $6000 entry fee OR more to build a competitive rifle plus a $2000 rest. A wrong decision between BR or F-Class is costly.

My gunsmith is a winning 1000 yard IBS shooter.. he gets to compete 5-6 times per year and drives distances. He can build me a winning BR rifle. BUT I think Im headed toward F-Class. Ive only seen 2 real BR guns at Dead Zero.. the guys were doing load development etc and frankly they were jerks when I approached to ask questions.. I am no annoying puppy dog either. There are no LR BR matches at Dead Zero.

F-Class… the guys are like… “come on bring what you have well bend the rules if needed to get you shooting … we have competition 2 days per month…. Etc etc. So there’s that element plus constant scanning of the net and YouTube I find much more in the way of F-Class.

Check out the IBS tab on the Accurate Shooter forum tab. Anyway.. I want to join where it appears to be growing and people have time to speak etc…

Now I am going to scope out what I need to build a competitive F-Class rifle… with BR or F-Class there are so many opinions on this subject I can’t sort through it all and come out confident.

Sorry for the long post.. this thread a super timely for me and I suspect there are others like me…

Cheers Gil

 

[tony parker]

i want to give a shout out to freedom benchrest its a fairly new organastion they are trying to grow the sport google them great group

 

[Bottom Fodder]

If you could shoot bench rest on you I phone you mite get young shooters.
realistically the young won’t to run and gun that’s why they go PRS.
bench rest has become an equipment war. I shot it years ago now I only shoot F class but if I where younger I would be banging steel

 

[tony parker]

Tony, I can totally agree with you buddy, nothing but the nicest ppl you can meet and most of them are willing to help, you are lucky and you're in a 600/1K shooting Mecca surrounded by some of the best shooters.

"the harder you work the luckier you get"

i totally agree hard work is starting to pay off every now and then looking forward to seeing u at the 600 Nats at Manatee GO FREEDOM

 

[R.Morehouse]

Newly retired. I am trying to decide between 1000 yard BR or F- Class. So far Ive been shooting 1000 yards from a bench here in TN with a 6BRA / REM Action/ Brux. Ive achieved single digit SD by focusing and spending$ on good reloading components etc. I shoot pretty good with my setup. Anyway it’s time to kick it up a notch but here’s the thing.. it’s a $6000 entry fee OR more to build a competitive rifle plus a $2000 rest. A wrong decision between BR or F-Class is costly.

My gunsmith is a winning 1000 yard IBS shooter.. he gets to compete 5-6 times per year and drives distances. He can build me a winning BR rifle. BUT I think Im headed toward F-Class. Ive only seen 2 real BR guns at Dead Zero.. the guys were doing load development etc and frankly they were jerks when I approached to ask questions.. I am no annoying puppy dog either. There are no LR BR matches at Dead Zero.

F-Class… the guys are like… “come on bring what you have well bend the rules if needed to get you shooting … we have competition 2 days per month…. Etc etc. So there’s that element plus constant scanning of the net and YouTube I find much more in the way of F-Class.

Check out the IBS tab on the Accurate Shooter forum tab. Anyway.. I want to join where it appears to be growing and people have time to speak etc…

Now I am going to scope out what I need to build a competitive F-Class rifle… with BR or F-Class there are so many opinions on this subject I can’t sort through it all and come out confident.

Sorry for the long post.. this thread a super timely for me and I suspect there are others like me…

Cheers Gil

If I had started when I was a younger man I would have been " All Over" PRS shooting. I was where you are regarding F-Class and LR-BR. If I wasn't blessed with the beginning of arthritis in my neck, I would have given F-Class a go. So I started, and remain, with SR & LR-BR. I don't know where you are physically at this point in your life but weigh into your equation the joy of setting up everything on the ground and getting yourself up and down off it......I am glad I went straight to BR...........Best Of Luck

Regards
Rick

 

[Kracken McGraw]

This is America. You can take an eight year loan out on a truck. Benchrest doesn't do financing.

Seriously. It's a big problem with any generation of Americans right now. If it cannot be financed down to a monthly payment, people won't buy in.

So the 6k price tag is a barrier, because people can just find another hobby they can dive right into for $X99 per month.

A prime example of why America is upside down right now and why divorce rates are so high.

 

[CaptainMal]

BR shooting used to be expensive. It was fun for me to occasionally win. Today it is MORE expensive and most of us cannot win any more.

Check out the $3,500 powder dispensers or maybe the $6,000 ones. Scopes really do start at $2,000 and go to double that. Stocks are a solid grand plus. Actions and triggers go 2 grand. Barrels start out as $450 blanks and end up $900 complete. Add on the bedding, tuning, $400 plus for 8 lbs of powder, dollar bullets, primers and ????

Now as an old shooter I speak with others like me. We are "has beens" but still having fun. Never or rarely can we be competitive unless we are quite wealthy in our retirements. Yet, many of us still show up and serve a good purpose. We allow the newer GREAT shooters to have someone to beat.

Without us there would be even fewer long-range benchrest competitors. New shooters show up, we encourage them and mentor them, hoping they like it. When they beat us they feel good and hopefully come back for more.

Although benchrest has dropped overall or never was super popular, there's still fun to be had. That's true for those finishing far down the list of results. I sure hope those involved keep on shooting.

Remember...it's better to be a "has been" than a "never was". Show up at a BR shoot and give it a try. Just find an old guy to help you along and make your experience fun.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

There's a lot of different PRS stuff. I live about an hour from the defunct Park Mammoth, where they held two per year of the biggest events anywhere. One was deemed the Mammoth Sniper Challenge. I forget what they called it but maybe Iron Man or similar. It was a class where the shooters stayed in the elements for the entire event which was several days, maybe a week. Lived out of a backpack, including overnights. Keep in mind too, they held these matches at the most extreme times of year in this area for weather. It might be 100° or sub 0° for the match. I'm sorry, but I ain't paying to do that! Lol! Respect to those that did, though. Many were former or current military. That just doesn't sound fun to me. I went as a spectator once...froze my arse off watching!

 

[Bronsin]

I think the best way for someone to get involved is in the factory class at a club. It's not terribly expensive and you can upgrade as funds allow, if you decide you want to continue. A lot of people simply don't have the time, or money to dedicate themselves to going to regional or larger matches. If they stay in the sport, those could change in the future.

One of the biggest hindrances as I see it is the awful wait time on components. I would have been shooting 5 years earlier if I didn't have to wait the whole season to get a stock for my Savage. By that time your on to different things and shooting goes to the back burner. For a new guy not plugged in to the community, it can take a long time to put something together.

 

[Papamike]

Every discipline or match should have a class for entry-level shooters and or entry-level equipment!!!

 

[Dimner]

Let's face it, BR is not a novice level sport. Biggest draw for new competitors is from shooters already established in the shooting sports. There is a huge learning curve that usually starts with a factory gun and ammo. Then they decide to learn to reload. Then its bolt on parts like stock, trigger, scope. They think they're a bona-fide shooter now! Show them a match ready SR/BR gun, rest, mobile reloading gear, wind flags, half a day spent cleaning for 40 rounds fired, it is intimidating.

Factory gun, ammo, big steel targets a few sand bags, sunglasses and brand logos on your shirt is much easier to achieve for the novice with a few extra thousand to play with every year.

Those of us here tend to overlook our own journey into the competitive shooting world. Not everyone grew up learning to reload or how to adjust for wind.

Also, I'm 41, F/class is my game of choice. I have a family with 3 teenagers and work 50+ hours a week. I'm lucky if I get to shoot 10 matches a year, and not all of those are F/class. Hard to compete against the retired guys who are at the range every week testing, tuning, and have the disposable income to remain at the top.

very well put

 

[Doug Beach]

The existence of extremely expensive equipment does not mean that equipment is required, or necessarily even helpful, in the pursuit of excellence. This is hard to get through people’s heads.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I think the best way for someone to get involved is in the factory class at a club. It's not terribly expensive and you can upgrade as funds allow, if you decide you want to continue. A lot of people simply don't have the time, or money to dedicate themselves to going to regional or larger matches. If they stay in the sport, those could change in the future.

One of the biggest hindrances as I see it is the awful wait time on components. I would have been shooting 5 years earlier if I didn't have to wait the whole season to get a stock for my Savage. By that time your on to different things and shooting goes to the back burner. For a new guy not plugged in to the community, it can take a long time to put something together.

I think the best way, in the long run, is to jump in with both feet. Buy once, cry once. But reality is most of us started out with a good shooting factory rifle, then handloading..etc. It just seems to be the natural progression. Why fight it. Lol!

That said, I believe every member should very actively seek out potential new shooters and get them involved in a factory class. Promoting that class is the area we fail at doing well...or most of us..myself included.

If you can get them to come and have someone to compete against, it's really a matter of..do they have the desire or not. Only a small percentage ever will, so we have to get every potential new shooter to at least give it a try. Most of the ones that stick around will move up. The ones that don't, didn't have a big investment in trying it out. It's a great sport and great people to be around but it's not for everybody. We've gotta reach the ones that it might be for, though.

Rule number 1...They have got to want it! But first, they have to be introduced to it. Sure, cost is a thing but time is even bigger to anyone with a job and family. The money...they are likely gonna spend it somewhere if they can. Might as well be in BR.

 

[WyleWD]

If I had started when I was a younger man I would have been " All Over" PRS shooting. I was where you are regarding F-Class and LR-BR. If I wasn't blessed with the beginning of arthritis in my neck, I would have given F-Class a go. So I started, and remain, with SR & LR-BR. I don't know where you are physically at this point in your life but weigh into your equation the joy of setting up everything on the ground and getting yourself up and down off it......I am glad I went straight to BR...........Best Of Luck

Regards
Rick

Very good input and response. IMHO.

As soon as I started shooting from a decent shooting bench and comfortable stool... things sprouted from there. A lot of what discipline you want to shoot will be driven by where you live and other factors like family, budget, job, etc. so that's difficult to make a good recommendation.

But a lot of times it's just good to go sit at a bench and compete against yourself with a good CUSTOM rifle that you loaded the rounds for and see what you can make it do. JME WD

 

[ttfreestyle]

My first 1000 match was Deep Creek nationals in 2018. I figured why not go shoot against the top shooters to gauge where I stood. Luckily I shot decent enough not to embarrass myself and had a blast. Met some great people and was treated like I was a old friend. We started traveling to shoot a few times a year after that and met more good folks and had some fun times. It was expensive then but WOW nowhere like it is today. If you don’t have a stash of components from the decent price days I can’t imagine buying components at today’s prices. So fast forward to today, I am getting ready to retire and my priorities have changed to spending time with a family that’s growing old and won’t be here forever and spending time with the grandkids. So I gave up traveling to matches to be able to spend this precious time together. If by chance one of the grandkids want to compete I do have enough stuff to make that happen but for now I’ll shoot in the back yard and enjoy retirement. Maybe a 22 match here and there if I feel the urge as a few are close to me but there are no long range matches in my area now. Good luck to everyone!

 

[steve210]

You will never have time or money for anything you want to do unless you make it. Life gets in the way of everything. Most people don't want to compete for various reasons. I've offered for people to shoot my stuff for free for years, very few takers but I have hooked a few over the years. Many of them are lifetime friends. Club matches are the best way to grow the sport, a lot less intimidation factor. There are not many clubs doing them because it requires a lot of time and work by someone to start them. If there are matches in your area offer your help to put the matches on.

 

[Will Henry]

The truth is, benchrest, just like any shooting competition, has the same basic requirements. First, the person has to want to compete within a rule structure. Those who stick with it are comfortable within the structure of the sport. The potential competitor has to have an intense interest in ultimate rifle precision, again within the structure of the sport. Unless the competitor happens to live near a national level range, he's going to have to plan on some travelling. The competitor will have to accept that there will be a learning curve.
Venues for BR shooting are somewhat limited. In general, for a range to exist, there has to be a solid core of dedicated shooters who will support the facility. They will then hope to attract other shooters who will travel to their range for the competition and for the experience. Among this local core group, there will be some who will travel to other ranges and some who may even travel to regional or national level matches.
Even now, some shooters will be experimenters, and some may even knowingly handicap themselves, making it unlikely that they will win.
When I started shooting short range BR, I was fortunate enough to live near a local benchrest range which was built and run by a few local guys who were just interested in benchrest. They had read about matches being held in other areas and decided to start their own club. This was in Clearwater, British Columbia, which in the early seventies, was a goodly distance from anywhere. I learned there was a club which shot real benchrest matches when I attended a turkey shoot in a nearby town and one of the BR guys was there. I attended my first match the next spring and learned that I had a lot to learn. I am embarrassed to recall the naivete which accompanied my foray into the BR world.
Because I've always been sort of a DIY sort of guy, I decided I should get a little more involved in the rifle building aspect of BR as well. As it happened, many of the competitors at Clearwater were amateur gunsmiths with varying skillsets. A couple of them were truly exceptional (the Forslund brothers) and I learned a lot from them. They were real characters and very good shooters.
I think one of the most rewarding aspects of my getting involved in BR competition was that I got to meet and get to know so many interesting people, and most of them at our little BR club in Clearwater. Most are gone now but I'll never forget them. The stories I could tell!
I got over the next couple of years and decided to try and make a living with my gunsmithing, which I did, just not a real good one at first! I had to travel to do as much shooting as I wanted to do and I never did get to attend the big matches I wanted to, but still, I had a good time and again, the people were great.
When I return to competition, most of the people I knew will no longer be there, but some will. I have every expectation that the new guys will be great too. I might write some more on this later on. WH

 

[JRanum]

How many of you gentleman that shoot competitions have young children at home?

If not anymore, did you compete when you did? Thats the limiting factor for me at age 42. I am working full time, overtime, and raising a family. I already miss some of the kids activities due to harvest or spring planting. I have my own range, enclosed shooting benches. I couldnt hope to even practice as much as needed let alone take a weekend and go compete.

 

[Spoonbill]

Im not real sure where I would find a br match ne NE Oklahoma long or short range. I do shoot f class at my club

 

[bichettereds]

Let's face it, BR is not a novice level sport. Biggest draw for new competitors is from shooters already established in the shooting sports. There is a huge learning curve that usually starts with a factory gun and ammo. Then they decide to learn to reload. Then its bolt on parts like stock, trigger, scope. They think they're a bona-fide shooter now! Show them a match ready SR/BR gun, rest, mobile reloading gear, wind flags, half a day spent cleaning for 40 rounds fired, it is intimidating.

Factory gun, ammo, big steel targets a few sand bags, sunglasses and brand logos on your shirt is much easier to achieve for the novice with a few extra thousand to play with every year.

Those of us here tend to overlook our own journey into the competitive shooting world. Not everyone grew up learning to reload or how to adjust for wind.

Also, I'm 41, F/class is my game of choice. I have a family with 3 teenagers and work 50+ hours a week. I'm lucky if I get to shoot 10 matches a year, and not all of those are F/class. Hard to compete against the retired guys who are at the range every week testing, tuning, and have the disposable income to remain at the top.

This!

I’ll speak to SR BR only. I see a lot of people giving reasons why they don’t compete but most of those challenges existed 30 years ago as well.

Expense: The game has never been cheap. Aside from maybe components, I don’t think the required gear is all that more expensive than it was 30 years ago, relative to avg income. Yes, there are $2000 rests and scopes, $600 priming tools, $1200 powder dispensers and annealers that are available to us, but none of that is required to compete or win.

When I jumped into this game I had been buying/collecting guns for 8-10 years and was already headed down the many rabbit holes of precision shooting and reloading. I think that’s a natural path for most of us that get involved in benchrest. I personally didn’t have $10k+ to plop down to get what I needed, but I had guns in my safe that weren’t getting used so I made the decision to sell off some of them to get what I needed. As time passed and I found myself getting more and more involved in the game, to the point where benchrest is pretty much all I wanted to shoot, more guns from the safe were going up for sale. I wanted a second and third rifle… guns were sold. I wanted to start making my own bullets… guns were sold. Now I’m thinking about buying a lathe, so guess what? I wish I didn’t have to but it is what it is.

Time away from home: Registered group matches are weekend long events. Cost of travel, gas, lodging and food are certainly factors here, but haven’t they always been? Travel with a buddy and split the cost of gas and a hotel room. Or you can sleep in your truck! Pack a cooler full of lunch meat and sodas. These are options that many people chose to do in the past. What’s changed?

Competitiveness: I know everyone is different but competing against the best in my region or even the nation, right out of the gate as a brand new shooter, was part of the appeal for me. I wouldn’t want it any other way. I’m not afraid of losing and fully expected to finish near the bottom my first few matches. Aside from new friendships and having a good time, seeing that progress is what kept me coming back. I believe shooting with/against guys much better than me is what accelerated my progress.

The biggest obstacle I see is the decrease in ranges holding matches and the people running them. With fewer and fewer matches being held and people having to travel further and further to attend, the more difficult it will be to get new shooters. Its sort of a catch-22, because the cause for less ranges hosting matches is caused by having fewer shooters or club members that have interest enough to run these matches.

I’ll second what dockmusk said… what are YOU doing to promote the sport or get new shooters involved?

I recently went to a club match held at a range located about 50 miles north of where we have two NBRSA registered SR Group matches. I went there to have a good time, but also perhaps meet a shooter or two that may want to take the next leap into registered matches. These club matches get 20-25 shooters every month. They’re shooting group and score, with mostly 6ppcs. They have two classes, factory and unlimited, but most of them are shooting unlimited (essentially HV 13.5lb guns with some LV). Lots of custom Borden, Bat and Panda actions in Kelby or McMillan stocks, with some Scovilles and Leonards mixed in. They’re using Farely and Seb rests with Leupold, NF and March scopes. Everyone is using flags. The equipment is there!

The difference is everyone was pre-loaded, it’s a one day match and they’re home by dinner. For many, that’s all they want out of this, but that’s nothing new either. It starts at the club level and a small number of those folks will want to take it to the next level. I think we’re just trying to pull from smaller and smaller pools of people is the problem. I don’t know what needs to change but I think it will help if we work at making the game more visible and when you find someone who has the interest and drive, do everything you can to help them.

My hope is some of the guys shooting PRS will eventually gravitate to a less physically demanding game, although F-Class seems like more of a natural transition.