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Bench shooting need some help

You make my point. Look at the bench, the rest and bag setup, and the rifle. They are all designed to work very well with that style of shooting. What I was trying to communicate was that unless all of these are correct, shooting free is probably not the best approach, and that using another method does not reduce one's prospects for shooting at the highest level.
 
Yes, Mr. Allen, I realize I was making your point but was more interested in trying to convince the OP that trying to shoot a factory Savage rifle, in 308, with 180 Gr. bullets, using the free recoil method, was probably not going to work out so well. I still think with the proper rifle, bag & rest set up, that the great majority of really good BR shooters, including yourself and the Outdoorsman, use the free recoil method.
 
You could try a sissy bag or Pact Recoil Shoulder Harness, but the logical thing to do is start over again at the bottom with a .22LR (@ ~.3 Ft.lb. of recoil energy), or a .223 (@ 3 Ft.lb RE). Trying to shoot a .308 w/ 180's (@ 18 Ft.lb RE) after getting hammered in the past by a .300 WM ( @ 26 Ft.lb RE) will most likely not get rid of any flinch or closing of the eyes.
Practice until the act of shooting is comfortable and becomes second nature.
Shooting from the bench is not complicated...basically hold the same way you do while shooting off-hand. If you can't get comfortable, adjust the heights of the sandbags (with blocking if necessary) and/ or shooting stool until it feels natural. Do NOT use bags that are packed hard, and run the rifle back and forth in the bags a few times before each shot.
However, a 10" group@ 100 off a rest seems excessive for a flinch, and I would suspect the scope/ rifle bedding/ mounts have been jarred loose by that infernal contraption called a lead sled.....worst piece of shooting equipment ever sold to the public.
And forget trying to learn anything from Youtube.....too many yahoos and keyboard shooters.
 
3" with a lead sled at 100y? 10" without? I would assume the group should be better with the sled and wonder if you was putting to much input into the trigger.. If the gun is supported by the bags and is sitting pretty firm then ten inches should never happen no matter what position you take behind the gun.. Unless you are just stabbing the trigger!! I would suggest practicing working the gun in the bags until it sits pretty steady and squeezing the trigger with a straight pull..


Ray
 
I didn't read every response, but I found that I needed to back off the gun. Less contact between the gun and me the better. I was at the point where I saw every heartbeat in the crosshairs. Lighten up on the grip. Every pressure point or touch creates vibration.
 
Your bench and/or rest are a problem if you are seeing vibration from contact with the rifle. A lot of shooters have never worked with a setup that keeps their cross hairs still, even when they are holding the rifle, and shouldering it, but with the right equipment you can. That is why you see so many pictures of concrete benches being used for benchrest matches. I think that you might find it enlightening to shoot from a proper bench using a good rest setup. I do most of my shooting with scopes that are over 40X, and at that magnification one is very aware of any rifle movement.
 
Mr. Allen,

You made the following statement in an earlier post on this thread: "Do not, repeat, do not try to shoot a sporter or tactical stocked rifle, of ordinary weight, like a bench rifle."

Do you have any advice to offer regarding technique, set up, etc. for shooting sporter or tactical stocked rifles from the bench? I know that I would and I expect others would appreciate and benefit from your input.

Thank you.
 
First of all, let me clarify what I meant by a bench rifle. I meant a rifle with a stock that is specially designed to be shot off of the bench, with no compromise in the design for any other purpose. Additionally, the rifle would be shot off a front rest and rear sandbag that are specially designed for that particular stock, purpose and, shooting style. Beyond that, rifles of this type often are built so that there is sufficient weight on the rear bag, so that contact by the shooter is not required to stabilize it at that end, or in many cases to shoot it. These rifles have flat forends, that are placed in bags designed for them, which are mounted in rest tops that allow for adjustment of side tension. Rear bags may be unsuitable for bag squeezing techniques because of their shape and/or construction, and degree of fill. Generally for the short and medium ranges (1-200 & 600) the caliber/bullet weight to rifle weight ratios are such that free recoil is common and may be done with some confidence as to consistency of performance.

On the other hand, sporter stocks are generally not designed to be flat bottomed, parallel sided, or stiff enough to do their best work when supported as bench rifles generally are, and the design of many of their butt stocks are such that the toe angle is excessive for best use by letting the rifle recoil for some distance during a shot. For these designs of stocks, rifle weights, and the diversity of calibers, rifle weights that may be found, etc. I find that shooting with stocks shouldered, and my trigger hand pulling the butt into my shoulder helps a lot. Also, I have found that moving the front bag back so that its back side is about 3" or so from the front of the action helps. Beyond that, I do not pull down on the rifle, or put excessive cheek force on the comb, preferring only light contact to let me know that I am where I want to be. The reason that I made such a strong statement was that I have seen so many shooters that try to emulate benchrest techniques with rifles that are entirely unsuitable by their design, and which would give much better results if they were shot in an appropriate manner. For rifles of this type, I shoulder, cheek and, to one degree or another, depending on the likes of that particular rifle, hang on to the rifle. By way of encouragement to those who doubt that they can shoot small this way because there rest, bag and bench setup do not allow them to hold the rifle without seeing motion of their cross hairs on the target, a better bench and rest/bag setup should solve this problem, and although I am too old stiff and lazy to do much shooting off the ground, do not believe that it would wiggle like a bad bench. I hope that this chapter ;-) will serve to answer your question.
Boyd
 
Thanks Boyd,

I think you've helped me already. I hope this also helps the OP, I don't mean to hijack. Had you seen me shoot a hunting rifle off the bench, I would have been one of those "so many shooters that try to emulate benchrest techniques with rifles that are entirely unsuitable by their design".

I have shot a few 100 & 200 yd. benchrest matches with a rifle built for that purpose and about half the time, with a free recoil technique and have tried (too much) to incorporate the same type of setup and techniques into shooting my other rifles, not built for that purpose. I have considered/contemplated the butt stock toe angle to rear bag interface many times but could never figure out, really how to compensate for it. I'm thinking implementing your advice of firm (and consistent) shoulder contact will probably help a lot. I do have a good Protector front bag with the new slickm material that fits the flat bottomed forend of my favorite hunting rifle well. When you say that you hang onto the rifle, do you mean with the non firing hand or does that maybe depend on the amount of recoil?

Thanks for your help, I can feel it working already and look forward to trying it the next time I shoot. I have heard that sometimes the ground in California does wiggle.......maybe not as much as a bad bench.
 
Fabulous info I these answers for sure. I was thinking about the possibility of flinching (mainly with the OP's introduction of the lead sled) and the role it may play here.
I thought about sighting in a 460 Weatherby....and once that was achieved what size would the 5 shot group be at 100 yards? Just sounds painful.
 
Most of the time, I shoot field rifles with only my trigger hand on the rifle, and my other one squeezing the rear bag to fine tune my aim. When you do this, follow through is really important. Sometimes though, when I must shoot a light high recoiling rifle, that I expect to come off of the front bag more than a bit as the shot goes off, I will carefully grasp the forend with my non trigger hand. To aim, I use my rest to get close, expect a shift when I get a hold of the rifle, use my whole body to nudge it back, back off for an instance to see that it is stable in its new position, and then muscle the rifle over the last quarter inch, and hold it there while I carefully squeeze the trigger, and follow through. This is not a good technique to use when the wind is switchy, because it takes longer to get a shot off properly, but in good conditions you may be surprised at the quality of your results. Just don't pull down on the forend, or hang the weight of your arm on it. Support the back of your hand, or wrist.
 
Thanks Boyd,

I look forward to the next time I get to shoot so that I can try focusing on the technique you have shared. In the past, I've been able to focus pretty well on different techniques that I have dreamed up but really haven't gotten any instruction from an accomplished shooter like yourself and therefore lacked confidence in that what I was trying was correct (and in many cases, I'm sure it wasn't). Although, in the few benchrest matches I shot, I was able to stay quite a ways from last; field rifles of varying weights with varying amounts of recoil have on many occasions, off the bench, baffled me.
 
I am not a particularly accomplished shooter, but I love to experiment, otherwise I get bored doing the same things over and over. Sometimes I find something that works better, and it is fun when I can help someone get better results. Let me know if it helps.
Boyd
 

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