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BC to bullet weight ratio

davidjoe

An experimental gun with experimental ammunition
Gold $$ Contributor
The interesting thing about ballistic drop and drift charts is that they truly don’t need to know bullet weight or diameter. If muzzle velocity and BC are entered, the drop and drift are fixed by those two variables regardless of what shape and weight of bullet was used to arrive at that particular BC. A .500 bc projectile at 2,800 fps, if you accept the principle of BC, drops and drifts the same whether .224, .243, .308 or .338.

For us busy at punching holes near the center, we aren’t concerned with how hard the bullet hits the berm, in fact any kinetic energy that didn’t translate directly to wind-bucking is useless to us, and required unnecessary powder and metal to achieve.

Extra powder that did not reduce drift is costly to us in at least three ways:

1) barrel heat which causes wear and eventually inaccuracy or blowups in long strings;

2) fatigue, even if the recoil is manageable without penalty in group size down range, but because of vibrations it’s actually not possible to achieve accuracy parity;

3) cost, the powder had to be bought, and if more was used for the same drift result, then the bullet was heavier, making it likely to cost more as well.

So if this is all logical, and if it is generally true that getting a light weight bullet up to the same speed as a heavy bullet, is easier, then it follows that what we should truly be concerned with in pursuits such as Fclass, when it comes to BC as an isolated issue, is the ratio between a bullet’s weight and its BC.

I’m hypothesizing that if we simply ignore the decimal point for our bullets, and divide that number by their weight, we get a fairly useful number.

We have heard standout Fclass guys dissuade shooting 6mms in matches for various reasons, though they can win at 600 majors, but why do they garner this spot that is both good, and then bad. There may be a different, bullet-related reason underlying picking on the sixes.

Here are some interesting results looking just at Hornady’s A-Tip line as an example because tipping them is irrelevant.

.308 250:

878 divided 250 = 3.512

7mm

838 divided by 190 = 4.41

Just for fun Berger 195


755 divided by 195 = 3.87

Run this on all the popular big LR bullets of your choice, and a very tight spread emerges. (It also works in comparing the same maker’s options).

Higher numbers are better in this regard. When we move down to 6 mm bullets something very interesting changes, instead of the tight cluster of numbers in the high 3’s and low 4’s we get this:

.243 A-Tip

604 divided by 110 = 5.49

The same drastic departure follows for the DTAC. I believe this quantitative and gross disparity is why 6’s seem to have a certain unarticulated advantage, - they are dramatically higher in BC for their weight, relative to everything else you could select to shoot, especially factoring in the their MV.
 
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David, this is an Interesting discussion. I like trying to understand which calibers and cartridges are best for specific applications. You started by saying external ballistics depend only on BC and muzzle velocity. Then you made a jump to BC and mass for the ratio you are calculating - not clear on that part. Also not clear how the ratio is helping us understand how well the bullets fight wind drift. Watching this one.
 
David, this is an Interesting discussion. I like trying to understand which calibers and cartridges are best for specific applications. You started by saying external ballistics depend only on BC and muzzle velocity. Then you made a jump to BC and mass for the ratio you are calculating - not clear on that part. Also not clear how the ratio is helping us understand how well the bullets fight wind drift. Watching this one.

Since BC is the “baked-in” product of how a bullet drifts and drops relative to a standard given projectile, if you can get the same performance from less mass, that’s always beneficial for reasons of saving powder, heat, metal, recoil and vibrations. A lighter bullet could be shot faster for a given, acceptable impulse of recoil.

When a bullet’s diameter doubles, from say .22 to .44, the frontal area has squared such that a 44 bullet has four times the frontal area of a 22. (A sling target’s 10 ring is four times the surface area of an F’s 10 value face). As all air must be pushed aside, this gives small diameter bullets a huge drag advantage.

But we can’t go smaller than .243 without losing bullets. The ratio flatters .224’s as well but they are too frangible. Even a .223 case can blow up long bullets, below competitive velocity, and if we shot those extremely fast from a necked down .243 for example, they’d come apart.
 
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I'll have to read this thread as well when I get home.

 
Using G1 number is not adequate for long range target shooting, G7 BC is a better factor to use, which it would track very well using single value down to 1.2 Mach, below that a multi G7 BC values is a better factor to use
First, the concept of "bullet normalized factor" is not new.

Bryan Litz suggested the G7 Bullet form factor, the lower the better.

So, how do we use the G7 form actor?
For a given Caliber #1 using the G7 form factor, you can select the bullet with lowest G7 form factor.
To compare bullets from difference Calibers, find the lowest form G7 factor bullets from both calibers, then find the which Bullet can be loaded in given case caliber and generating the highest MV from said case with consideration for acceptable recoil per max gun weight

In general, Calibers: 243, 264, 284, 308, 338, 378, etc. Starting with the smallest calibers would generate less recoil for a given gun weight.

I suggest a new "BC Index" defined as BCI = (Max MV / G7FF), the higher the better.
If gun weight is a limiting factor, Net BCI = (BCI / total gun weight) could be used.
 
@davidjoe
Sounds interesting but where do you get the 878, 838, 755 numbers?
What would the number be for an 88gr ELD-M @ 3000fps from a 22 Nosler?
Hornady lists the G7 as
22 Cal 88 gr. ELD Match. 0.274, 0.268, 0.266
 
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I don't normally look at heavy 30 cal bullets but G1's over 0.8, Holy smokes.
So the G1 of 541 divided by 88 = 6.15
and the 90 A-Tip would be 585 divided by 90 = 6.5
(I don't have any of these $$)
Did I do it right?
I tried the 110 A-Tip but the G1 is listed as 0.604 I don't get the same as your number.
Think of all the time saved not plugging in all those extra numbers into the calculator just to compare bullets. :)
 
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I don't normally look at heavy 30 cal bullets but G1's over 0.8, Holy smokes.
So the G1 of 541 divided by 88 = 6.15
and the 90 A-Tip would be 585 divided by 90 = 6.5
(I don't have any of these $$)
Did I do it right?
I tried the 110 A-Tip but the G1 is listed as 0.604 I don't get the same as your number.
Think of all the time saved not plugging in all those extra numbers into the calculator just to compare bullets. :)

Good eye on the 110. I changed it.

Yes, I used to think a very unique drop calculation was being crunched on all those data fields, but the result for drop and drift is the same no matter what your input is, including no data. Time of fight is also bc determined. Energy on the target does definitely depend on bullet weight, though.
 
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When you consider the larger diameter has more drag, you must also consider the larger diameter is easier to accelerate because of increased area on the bullet base. Don't know where the break even line is on that.
 
Yesterday, I shot 2 bullets
175gr RDF 308 bullet at 2700 fps from 22" barrel
147gr ELDM 264 bullet at 3100 fps from 30" barrel

175gr RDF G7 BC: 0.270
147gr ELDM G7 BC 0.320

G7 Form factor is defined as, G7FF = Sectional density / G7
175gr RDF sectional density: 0.264
147gr ELDM sectional density: 0.301

175gr RDF G7FF: 0.264 / 0.270 = 0.977
147gr ELDM G7FF: 0.301 / 0.320 = 0.940

175gr RDF BCI = 2700 / 0.977 = 2764
147gr ELDM BCI = 3100 / 0.940 = 3297

147gr ELDM has a higher BCI than 175gr RDF by almost 20%
 
Of more importance to any target shooter, is the wind defection for full value of 10 MPH, say at 600 yards and one thousand yards
147gr ELD (per 10 MPH)
600 yards: 0.8 mil, 1000 yards = 1.5 mil

175gr RDF (per 10 MPH)
600 yards: 1.3 mil, 1000 yards = 2.5 mil

Example, shooting a 18" target at 1000 yards. Target size is 0.5 mil
For the 147gr bullet
Say the shooter dialed 1.5 mil for 10 mph
The bullet would still impact with wind from 8.3mph to 11.67mph

For the 175gr bullet
Say the shooter dialed 2.5 mil for 10 mph
The bullet would still impact with wind from 9mph to 11 mph

Example, shooting a 21.6" target at 600 yards. Target size is 1mil

For the 147gr bullet
Say the shooter dialed 0.8 mil for 10 mph
The bullet would still impact with wind from 3.75 mph to 16.25mph

For the 175gr bullet
Say the shooter dialed 1.3 mil for 10 mph
The bullet would still impact with wind from 6.15mph to 13.85 mph
 
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That 147 is screaming :)
I get this for my little .22 N with 88s @3000 from 28" barrel
Haven't shot 1000 yet and getting better at 600.
Only a fool would shoot this in F-Open :)
(yd)(mil)(mil)(ft/s)
RangeDropWindageVelocityMach
600-3.01.02048.51.790
1000-7.32.01518.11.327
3 mils @ 600, 0.1 mil per mph
 
Applied ballistics will have their ballistic lab at the Niteforce ELR match in Wyoming in June. It's free and I signed up for it just to see. I feel I've got my stuff pretty well trued up but?. It should be interesting to see what they come up with.
 
@Beiruty
Using this set of calculations,
88gr ELDM G7 BC: 0.275
sectional density: 0.251
88 ELDM G7FF: 0.251 / 0.275 = 0.913
88 ELDM BCI = 3000 / 0.913 = 3286

If my math is correct, what does this number tell me?
(other than it is a cheap alternative @ 28 cents shipped)
3000fps from a 28" 5R 0.219" 1:7= 308571 rpm and they remain intact @ 600yds

Using the lower 0.266 G7 BC (MACH 1.75) of 0.266
I get a BCI of 3179.
Just for comparison the 147gr ELDM at the same speed (3000fps) yields a BCI of 3191

Maybe later this year I'll get to 1000 yds and will probably use the 95gr SMK.
I don't have velocity data for this one yet.
 
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Using data in Litz book over a wide range of bullet calibers, designs, and weights there is a perfect correlation between G1 and G7 meaning the characterization is not different for the two methods. Of course the flight models are different with a resulting impact on ballistics.
 
@Beiruty
Using this set of calculations,
88gr ELDM G7 BC: 0.275
sectional density: 0.251
88 ELDM G7FF: 0.251 / 0.275 = 0.913
88 ELDM BCI = 3000 / 0.913 = 3286

If my math is correct, what does this number tell me?
(other than it is a cheap alternative @ 28 cents shipped)
3000fps from a 5R 28" 0.219" 1:7= 308571 rpm and they remain intact @ 600yds

Using the lower 0.266 G7 BC (MACH 1.75) of 0.266
I get a BCI of 3179.
Assuming the 88gr ELDM G7 BC: 0.275 is dead on for the range you are shooting,
Then, the 88 ELDM is more efficient than both the 147gr ELDM and the 175gr RDF
However, the 88gr ELDM BCI is 3179 and it would slot between
175gr RDF BCI of 2764
147gr ELDM BCI of 3297
Thus, the 88gr ELDM is beating the 175gr but not the 147gr. However, the 147gr was launched at 3100 from a 6.5 PRC rifle weighing more than 18lbs. So, rifle weight must be considered to have fair comparison.

Note: the BCI index corollate very well with the Ballistics at 600 yards
88gr: 3 mils @ 600, 0.1 mil per mph
147gr: 2.7 mils @ 600, 0.08 mil per mph
175gr: 4.1 mils @ 600, 0.13 mil per mph

Note 2: There is no free lunch in physics
The 224 barrel shooting the 88gr ELDM would have a shorter life than both the 6.5 PRC and the 308 barrels
The 6.5 PRC shooting the 147gr ELDM would have a short life than both the 308 barrel shooting the 175 RDF
 

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