Okay, so BAT actions machined out of 17-4 SS. Others, if not all, were machined out of 416R SS. What's the significance of that?
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
17-4 is more similar to chromoly in terms of toughness. In my experience, all thing equal a 17-4 action will take higher pressures. Some of the loads we run in Bats just wont work in others. Now, heat treat plays a role too. So I am not saying all 17-4 actions hold more pressure than all 416 actions. But if you look at how small the lug surface area is on a Bat B or DS vs all other actions in that class AND they hold as much or more pressure than all others I think you would agr
MST is a short throw M. Its an M length bolt though not a B.
Not arguing but at the typical action hardness, I don't see that ph steels have an advantage at all over 416. Now yes, if you wanna go harder, it can go harder than 416. Like I said above, for our application, I don't see a big edge going to either and both are MORE than adequate, IMO. As you know, production capabilities weigh into the best material as do your heat treating capabilities in house. As do machining pre heat vs post heat materials. Not saying you're wrong at all. In fact, just that under the conditions/state that we need our actions to be negates most if not all of the benefits of 17-4 while giving up some machinabilty on top of that. Yes, I think we agree that 17-4 CAN be taken to levels that 416 can not. Basically, both are more than enough and it depends on our heat treating abilities and how stable one vs the other is, if post machining heat treat is needed. I think a case could be made for either being superior under all of those parameters or circumstances. If you need hardness, 17-4 can certainly go beyond 416 though. That's without getting into surface treatments like nitriding. That adds a whole different element into the choices, IMHO.Let’s get real here.
There is no contest between the tinsel strength, yield strength, impact strength, and ductility, of the Precipitation Hardenning Stainless Steels such as 17-4, 15-5, etc when compared to 416.
The reason action manufactures use 416 is that it is adequate for the task on hand and can be bought as pre hardened bar stock. The only thing it has over 17-4 is it’s relative free machining qualities. This allows lower tooling cost and higher production rates.
The advent of CAD/CAM Machining has allowed just about anybody that can program a machine to toss pre hardened bar stock into machining centers and turn out actions.
Bat not only uses 17-4, they also do their own in house heat treating. This is far superior to buying pre hardened commercial heat treated bars that could be manufactured any where on the planet and have a very wide tolerance in the actual RC harness.
I would venture a guess that Bat treats their 17-4 at around H1050, judging from the RC hardness.
I have actions machined from 17-4. Farley’s and Bats. Some years back, I bought a Stiller diamond Back drop port for my Rail Gun. It was a 416 action.
The loads I shoot in my Farley 6PPC with no problems would darn near lock that 416 action up. It didn’t take me long to can it.
Do you really need the extra strength and enhanced properties that actions machined from properly age hardened Precipitation Hardening stainless steels offer? Probably not. but it’s good to know you have the best.
Now, that answered questions I never knew I had. Thank youLet’s get real here.
There is no contest between the tinsel strength, yield strength, impact strength, and ductility, of the Precipitation Hardenning Stainless Steels such as 17-4, 15-5, etc when compared to 416.
The reason action manufactures use 416 is that it is adequate for the task on hand and can be bought as pre hardened bar stock. The only thing it has over 17-4 is it’s relative free machining qualities. This allows lower tooling cost and higher production rates.
The advent of CAD/CAM Machining has allowed just about anybody that can program a machine to toss pre hardened bar stock into machining centers and turn out actions.
Bat not only uses 17-4, they also do their own in house heat treating. This is far superior to buying pre hardened commercial heat treated bars that could be manufactured any where on the planet and have a very wide tolerance in the actual RC harness.
I would venture a guess that Bat treats their 17-4 at around H1050, judging from the RC hardness.
I have actions machined from 17-4. Farley’s and Bats. Some years back, I bought a Stiller diamond Back drop port for my Rail Gun. It was a 416 action.
The loads I shoot in my Farley 6PPC with no problems would darn near lock that 416 action up. It didn’t take me long to can it.
Do you really need the extra strength and enhanced properties that actions machined from properly age hardened Precipitation Hardening stainless steels offer? Probably not. but it’s good to know you have the best.