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BAT 3 lug vs Barnard

What is the difference between the BAT 3 lug action and the Barnard?

The two actions appear to be very similar so I was wondering why someone would select one over the other.

Bobby
 
I'll step out and try to get this started. The Barnard has a following in the HP, Palma, and F-Class circles where a 0.5MOA action is sufficient for most shooters although there has been a horsepower race lately with a number of the top of the line actions showing up for "belly benchrest". The Barnard is known as a rugged, solid action. I suspect the clearances are slightly larger to permit operation in a dirtier environment since it was designed to shoot on the ground for 50-100 rounds between cleanings. The BAT is used more in Benchrest actions and I suspect its clearances are a little tighter and it is capable of 0.25MOA accuracy. By the way I shoot a Barnard in F Class against the BAT's and Niseka's and I don't think I give anything away shooting a Barnard. Wind reading with only one or two flags for 600-1000 yds becomes more important than an additional 0.25MOA accuracy from your action. Maybe at the national events this would be different since the top shooters can use the actions to their fullest advantage.
 
I have owned a 3 lug BAT and sold it before I ever put a barrel on it. Very much harder to open the bolt than my 3 lug Gilkes actions. I got rid of the BAT because I had a Barnard in the gun safe and the BAT did not compare for long range prone. The Barnard is very stout and the action works easily and smoothly. It is very simple in construction. The lugs have the best engagement of any action I have ever owned.

I have several 2 lug BAT actions and I love them. The 3 lug BAT has it hands down on the "ugly Barney" for looks, but the Barnard is my selection. In fact I would personally select any of the 2 lug BAT actions over their 3 lug. That is just me and opinions will differ for sure.

Jim Hardy
 
My Barnard has been responsible for multiple successive deaths on golf tees at 200yards. The editor himself has witnessed this.,see gun of the week #20) The Barnard locks up with the upmost precision and the security of a bank vault. The bolt fit is .0015" at lock up.

Scott Parker
Bakersfield CA
 
I have a 3-lug BAT sitting in the drawer until I get past a couple of other builds I have going.

When I first took it out of the box, I felt the same way as Jim. I noticed that as I worked the bolt, some of the bluing was wearing from contact with the bolt handle,down low in the slot) where it shouldn't. Called Tom and talked to him about it, sent it back in thinking that the handle was simply mistimed.

Bruce took a look at it and sent it back to me with a note explaining that that's what happens when you cycle the action without a barrel in place. Feeling a little annoyed, I sat down with it and started cycling the action ensuring that I pulled the bolt back against the lugs first. It cycled smoothly, just like you'd expect it to. I hate being wrong.

I've never seen a Barnard, so I can't offer anything of a comparison. I just thought Jim's post deserved a counter-example.

As to which is better, well, I doubt that you'll hear any compelling evidence here one way or the other. Just get whichever one you like the best and be happy with it.

robert
 
I can only comment on the 3 lug BAT action, since it's the only 3 lug I have operated. When I first got it, I found it a little stiffer than my 2 lug BAT, but now that it's broken in, it's smooth as butter. It is without question one of the finest actions made IMO. You will find Barnards on the line at lots of prone shooting events, but to say they are scarce at a BR match is an understatment. I don't know why as they have a good reputation in most competitive disciplines. The Bat 3 Lug is catching on like wildfire in BR circles and eventually may be the most used action in the game. Time will tell. I doubt you could go wrong with either action, it just depends on the discipline it will be used. Another plus for the Barnard is, if I understand correctly, it is supplied with a very nice trigger for about $1000. With the BAT, you will be into over $1400 after you fit a Jewell to it.
 
Thanks for all the replies.

I already have a Barnard action and I am very happy with it.

I was just curious because the BAT 3 lug appears to be very popular. The Barnard looks like the same action but I don't see them garnering the same attention.

I am going to stick with my Barnard for now.

Bobby
 
A BAT with a Remington pattern trigger does not compare to a Barnard with it single stage/two stage/adjustable shoe trigger group.

How is the bolt handle installed on a BAT 3 lug - silver soldered??
If so-it will come off-sometime-somewhere.

The handle on a Barnard is one piece-sleeved/indexed around the bolt body for perfect timing.
 
LOL...that's two posts on this thread of someone putting BAT 3 lug's down and never even using one. Dans40X has obviosly never even layed his eyes on one...no the bolt handle isn't silver soldered on. And I don't suppose your bias comes from the fact that your making money tig welding bolt handles? Come on, how many hundreds of thousands of bolt handles have been brazed on and never come off? If it's done properly, there is nothing wrong with brazing.
 
I like my P-02 Barnards,4)for their bolt camming/timing & awesome triggers.
I won't look at a BAT that requires a Remington pattern trigger.
You can't build a FERRARI out of Ford parts!!

Yes,I provide a service TIG welding handles on bolts.
They all come with a Lifetime Guarantee!!!!!!

The hundreds of thousands of soldered handles that haven't come off yet are swung a few times a year on hunting rifles.

I'm glad the 800 miles of ALASKA pipeline just over the hill from my house is not brazed together!!!!!
 
I have a P series Barnard and from what has been said on here looks like not only do you buy them cheaper 10,000 miles away from where they are made but you get better triggers to boot or is a 2lb trigger what you call awesome i would like a nice light trigger but can not adjust it down light enough with out it going off with a bump and if it goes off when you bump the butt its not a safe trigger. And you buy them for $1000 where we have to pay $1700 and a Bat would cost us something like $2200.
This is exactly why i am presently haveing an action drawn up so that a company with very modern CNC machines can give me a Quote on Manufacturing an Aussie Action. Also with the large Mining concernes in the area we have a company with lasers one of which can cut 8inches of hardend steel for makeing large cogs. I even spoke to the Savage importer today who has some of the Savage Target actions on order but dosn`t have a delivery time but will be months away and retail price here will be $950 to $1000 Whats your price? anywhere from $375 to $504. There is a market here if Stiller or one of the better action makers was to produce here in country. I have 4 peole would take a Stiller Viper today if we could get them for $1500 with trigger at present they are what 850USD plus BR trigger makes them 1,000USD convert to aussie dollar 1240AUD but by the time we were to get it closer to $2000 or more here is a quote i got.
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Viper RB/LP PPC BF Landed here inc GST $1975 Jewell 2OZ add $280
??????????????????????????????????????????????
 
I don't want to get into who's trigger is better, espescially sinced I haven't even yanked on a Barnard. I will say this though, most every major BR match in the US every year is won by a Remington style trigger. Most of those triggers are Jewell's, some new Kelbly's and a few others. I don't know how well the Barnard is timed either because I've never messed with one. One thing I can say about a Remington bolt handle being TIG welded or brazed on without the action present is that the chance of it being in time when sent back to the customer is between SLIM AND NONE. This service is fine for the guy with a new bolt for his deer rifle, but for competition shooting a bolt needs to be properly timed for the action being used. I assume this is part of Barnard's fitting process. No question that their price is as good as one can hope for in the custom action business, however if the trigger can't be adjusted below 2 lbs, it won't go far in BR circles.
 

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