Barts 6mm 105gr Hammers

[JMayo]

One guys .008 in is another's .017 in.
All the terms are according to how you get there.

Example
one guy looks for marks on bullet

another uses feel of disassembled bolt
drop,

another doesn't disassemble the bolt & assumes ejector playback.

another seats long and lets bolt push bullet in. Pulls it out and maybe bullet pulls out some, assume that playback....

I've developed "my way" after some time ammasing all the opinions/ways of others. I'm confidant and now allot of the internet talk is ppl finding "their way".
Keep what you need, put the rest on the shelf, ya might need it later !

 

[Bryan Z.]

OK Guys,

When I talk to customers about tuning long range rifles, I tell them that I usually start at touch and go into the rifling from there. Most of the time I’ll end up .006 to .012 in. I also tell them they can find an equally good seating depth jumping. Usually once again .006 to .012 jumping.

This weekend I shot the Hog Roast (short range) which is a qualifier for the World Team. I shot a 6BRA with the 105 Hammers in the 200 yard HV and came in 4th out of 70 shooters. Bad timing on the 3rd target cost me the match.
View attachment 1339530

The 105 Hammers work pretty good for long range to.

Bart

Cool! Nice shooting Bart! Shows that you can successfully use a cartridge customarily designed for LR in SR. I just had a conversation recently with Jim Lynn about this very thing. He was talking about how components for short range are so hard to find and how we may need to move to more widely available components which customarily you would see in the long range crowds. I personally am equipped with enough components now to last me quite a while but will be looking forward to the future where we may see more of this type of switching over.

 

[BartsBullets]

Cool! Nice shooting Bart! Shows that you can successfully use a cartridge customarily designed for LR in SR. I just had a conversation recently with Jim Lynn about this very thing. He was talking about how components for short range are so hard to find and how we may need to move to more widely available components which customarily you would see in the long range crowds. I personally am equipped with enough components now to last me quite a while but will be looking forward to the future where we may see more of this type of switching over.

Thanks,

I’ve seen plenty of powder and primers for short range pop-up you just have to look harder than usual. The price might not be very appealing either.

Bart

 

[Bryan Z.]

Thanks,

I’ve seen plenty of powder and primers for short range pop-up you just have to look harder than usual. The price might not be very appealing either.

Bart

Yes, I’ve been grabbing up what I can. Hopefully the future will bode well for all shooting sports and we will have an abundance of great components for all!

 

[WIB3]

hard jam in not a repeatable number..it is a variable...

Hard jam is touch, using Wheeler method, and out .020. Find max powder charge, using what you are testing. Record that number and start backing out.003 at a time. Now you have found max pressure for a given powder and hopefully the node. Needs to be done for every bullet/powder combination. They are all different.

 

[WIB3]

Hard jam is touch, using Wheeler method, and out .020. Find max powder charge, using what you are testing. Record that number and start backing out.003 at a time. Now you have found max pressure for a given powder and hopefully the node. Needs to be done for every bullet/powder combination. They are all different.

So yes, jam is a very easily achieved and recordable number. It varies from bullet lot to lot.

 

[WIB3]

I am somebody trying to help others. Been shooting 1000yd BR for 35 years. Find MAX jam with any givin powder. And work backwards in increments you see fit, based on seating depth. Once maximum power charge has been established, it’s easy. Testing is required though. It is not one fits all situation.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

I am somebody trying to help others. Been shooting 1000yd BR for 35 years. Find MAX jam with any givin powder. And work backwards in increments you see fit, based on seating depth. Once maximum power charge has been established, it’s easy. Testing is required though. It is not one fits all situation.

Thank You for your time to post this, I find it invaluable for you guys to share this information!
When you find the load that is showing pressure at jam, are you going back to the previous load that didn’t show pressure signs to start the backing out seating test?

 

[WIB3]

When you start to see pressure signs at jam record your atmospheric conditions. This is your max powder charge for those conditions. Start working back in your seating depth in .003 increments. The pressure will obviously go down. This obviously is for one powder and one bullet combination. When any of those variables change the process should start over. Record everything. The information you archive is priceless. That is why BR shooters buy large quantities of any given lot. Once they find the sweet spot they are golden for years.

 

[WIB3]

Excellent bullet manufacturers like Bart, Tom J and Roy H are all at the mercy of the component manufacturers. There product, excellent I will add, will change from year to year. Back to the main post. Bart makes outstanding bullets and I would feel extremely comfortable following any advice he would give.

 

[6bra1k]

Hard jam is touch, using Wheeler method, and out .020. Find max powder charge, using what you are testing. Record that number and start backing out.003 at a time. Now you have found max pressure for a given powder and hopefully the node. Needs to be done for every bullet/powder combination. They are all different.

well i disagree, but there ya go

 

[4xforfun]

"just touch? OK....what about bullet runout? How about the runout in your dies. How about stacking? I figure that there could be as much as .002 to .003 total runout. So...."just touching" could mean .001 off or .001 in!! My guess is that there isn't much difference between .010 and .012 in (or out), but -001 and +001 could be a big difference.


So....I leave that area from between .005 in to .005 out to the "experts. Just my .002.

 

[6bra1k]

"just touch? OK....what about bullet runout? How about the runout in your dies. How about stacking? I figure that there could be as much as .002 to .003 total runout. So...."just touching" could mean .001 off or .001 in!! My guess is that there isn't much difference between .010 and .012 in (or out), but -001 and +001 could be a big difference.


So....I leave that area from between .005 in to .005 out to the "experts. Just my .002.

you are entitled to your opinon, but those numbers are not in my match ammo. i have taken an INCH out of group size at 300 yards on a TWO THOUSANDTH seating depth change. all the small stuff adds up..so i control as many as i can

 

[4xforfun]

you are entitled to your opinon, but those numbers are not in my match ammo. i have taken an INCH out of group size at 300 yards on a TWO THOUSANDTH seating depth change. all the small stuff adds up..so i control as many as i can

I am NOT saying that .002 won't make a difference. What I am saying is that .001 jump vs .001 jam could be a HUGE difference.

Carry on.

 

[wildcatter]

you are entitled to your opinon, but those numbers are not in my match ammo. i have taken an INCH out of group size at 300 yards on a TWO THOUSANDTH seating depth change. all the small stuff adds up..so i control as many as i can

Man, I just have to give thanks to God that none of my rifles are that touchy, if .002" in my seating depth made a 1" change in my group in mine, I'd be shoot'n over an 1" half the time.

 

[6bra1k]

Man, I just have to give thanks to God that none of my rifles are that touchy, if .002" in my seating depth made a 1" change in my group in mine, I'd be shoot'n over an 1" half the time.

simple question do you shoot long range br ?? 600/1000 yards
have you won at the national level in long range ?
the record at 600 is 5 shot ins just over .3, and at 1000 it is just over 1 inch..
we play with very small details

 

[wildcatter]

simple question do you shoot long range br ?? 600/1000 yards
have you won at the national level in long range ?
the record at 600 is 5 shot ins just over .3, and at 1000 it is just over 1 inch..
we play with very small details

I'm new at this, just lucky so far I guess? but my de tailer is getting smaller the older I get.

 

[WIB3]

It appears that this thread has wondered from the original intent. And yes, I have won at the national level. We shoot 10 shots for record both in light and heavy though. The records mentioned only apply to 5 shots. Big difference.

 

[Ccrider]

If you have enough bullets and powder, test for yourself. If not, you got some guys that are tested and proven, sharing their knowledge with you.

Assuming your gun is up to the task, you will not see the slight benefits if your reloading skills and gun handling skills are not top level. The guys winning can do both at the highest level. If you are trying to shoot .0s and .1s, fine tuning seating depth matters.If you are wanting to shoot .2s and .3s, your seating window is going to be larger.

 

[WIB3]

We are all here to pass on the knowledge that we have gained from years of shooting our particular disciples. It’s kind of like passing the torch. There were individuals who helped me back in the early 80’s, the their techniques still hold today. Yes bullets and dominant calibers have progressed, but putting them all together has not. If someone is able to recreate the wheel please post your findings and post pictures of your results. But to date I know of no world record, in at regulated 1000 BR , 10 shot match, that is even close to 1”. Sanctioned and officially measured.