Bartlein 5R or standard 4 groove in .284 (8.5twist)?

[SHall]

A question for a select few that have shot both. 5R barrel and standard 4g. I'll be shooting a Standard .284 Win./ Lapua in a LG for 1000 yards benchest. I have some Berger 180 VLD Target, Hunting, and Hybrids, and 180 Sierra's to try. I have a Barlein 8.5 twist HV with 5R rifling I traded for about 4 years ago. I dont have any experience with the 284. My question is: what seems to be the most accurate in this set up? 5R or 4g? And what bullets seems to be most accurate? I know all barrels are different, just want some real world experiece, no theorys, or hunting loads. I may sell/trade this Bartlein 5R before i get it chambered if you guys think the 4g in Barlein, Krieger, or Brux seems to wok better for 1000 yard benchrest. I usually shoot a Dasher, but would like a heavier caliber for windy days at 1000. I thought of a 300WSM, but was not sure if I could handle that much recoil in a LG. Thank you for your input, Samuel Hall

 

[cmillard]

well, I don't have a bartlein barrel, or a .284 for that matter. but, I will say this, I choose 5R or canted lands when I can. I have a 5R Krieger on my 6bR and it shoots lights out, cleans super easy and does not copper foul. I also have 2 3C barrels from benchmark that are in the same boat as the Krieger. my next one will be a Schneider 5C .308 10 twist

 

[ShootDots]

I am on my 3rd 7mm Barrel. My first 2 were Brux 1-9twist. I never really pay attention to what the rifling is, as long as the twist is right and it is either a Bartlein, Krieger or Brux in ANY of my rifles. I BELIEVE the 2 Brux barrels were 5R's. This 3rd barrel I have is a 1-8.5twist, "conventional" 4 groove rifling from Krieger. The first 2 were Shehanes and this one is a "straight" .284. It is my opinion that an 8.5 twist is preferable to a 9 twist, especially at 1000 yards. I am just at the beginning stages of load development>>but it is promising.

Now, I talked a friend of mine into the Krieger 1-8.5 and he had it chambered in a Shehane. I was surprised he did it as he has 2 other Shehane barrels that he had chambered, developed loads in and they shoot really good. They are 9 twists. However, after developing a load in this 1-8.5 twist, he is convinced it is as accurate as his 6 Dasher. On 2 different days, he shot groups at 1000 yards with the 8.5 twist. On BOTH occasions he shot a couple of 5 shot groups that were INSIDE 3"! That is why he is convinced that "out yonder" the 8.5 twist Krieger creates noticeably better results than his other 9 twist Shehanes. He is now VERY glad I talked him into that 8.5 twist. He states it will only be used at BIG matches.

 

[dkhunt14]

I have shot a bunch of 5C barrels from Broughton. I believe they clean easier and the accuracy has been great. I believe you get good barrels in either. The twist for a 284 is something I have no experience in but in 30 cal the faster 10 seems to outshoot the 11 when conditions get bad. I believe a little too much twist is better then not enough. Sam are you coming to the World Open?. Matt

 

[wapiti25]

I have shot only six Krieger and Bartlien barrels and they were in 22 and 6mm at 600 yds. They were both 4 groove and 5R, I did not see much difference that I could say was the rifling form. All of the rifles were different as stocks, scopes, caliber. They were all shot at 600 yds, the most accurate is the latest a 6 Dasher with a Bartlien 5r with a Night force scope. I still go back to a 223 for practice which is a Krieger 4 groove, I have beat a lot of 308's at 600 with that gun. I would build your gun with the barrel you have and you need to find the bullet it likes.

 

[SHall]

Thanks guys, these replys have helped me a lot! Now for the bullet in 180g. Is there any stand out for benchrest accuracy at 1000 yards. I know the Hybrid has the best BC, but will it group like the Berger VLDs or Sierra 180s? I know different barrels like different bullets, but sometimes some designs just shoot better on average. For instance the last lot of 6mm 105 Berger Hybrids are some of the best 6mm bullets i bave ever shot at 600 yards, and i have shot thousands and thousands of different bullets. Matt, i would love to come back to the World Open, but that is hard for me to do considering it falls on my wife's birhtday! Lol. I just got away with that ONCE. Maybe someday again! Samuel

 

[ShootDots]

Thanks guys, these replys have helped me a lot! Now for the bullet in 180g. Is there any stand out for benchrest accuracy at 1000 yards. I know the Hybrid has the best BC, but will it group like the Berger VLDs or Sierra 180s? I know different barrels like different bullets, but sometimes some designs just shoot better on average. For instance the last lot of 6mm 105 Berger Hybrids are some of the best 6mm bullets i bave ever shot at 600 yards, and i have shot thousands and thousands of different bullets. Matt, i would love to come back to the World Open, but that is hard for me to do considering it falls on my wife's birhtday! Lol. I just got away with that ONCE. Maybe someday again! Samuel

Sam, I have only shot the 180 Hybrids in my rifles. Before the Hybrid came out, a friend of mine shooting F-Open, shot the 180 VLD's. I saw him shoot 2 back-to-back groups at 300 yards that were in the low .300 range for 5 shots. That is difficult to beat. However, the Hybrids in 7mm were the first Hybrids made and it is their "Flagship" bullet and they do shoot exceedingly well.. I am NOT a Benchrest shooter. But I have shot some good groups at 1000.. I think the 7mm Hybrids shoot better than the 6mm Hybrids!

 

[BOB LEE SWAGGER]

I am on my 3rd 7mm Barrel. My first 2 were Brux 1-9twist. I never really pay attention to what the rifling is, as long as the twist is right and it is either a Bartlein, Krieger or Brux in ANY of my rifles. I BELIEVE the 2 Brux barrels were 5R's. This 3rd barrel I have is a 1-8.5twist, "conventional" 4 groove rifling from Krieger. The first 2 were Shehanes and this one is a "straight" .284. It is my opinion that an 8.5 twist is preferable to a 9 twist, especially at 1000 yards. I am just at the beginning stages of load development>>but it is promising.

Now, I talked a friend of mine into the Krieger 1-8.5 and he had it chambered in a Shehane. I was surprised he did it as he has 2 other Shehane barrels that he had chambered, developed loads in and they shoot really good. They are 9 twists. However, after developing a load in this 1-8.5 twist, he is convinced it is as accurate as his 6 Dasher. On 2 different days, he shot groups at 1000 yards with the 8.5 twist. On BOTH occasions he shot a couple of 5 shot groups that were INSIDE 3"! That is why he is convinced that "out yonder" the 8.5 twist Krieger creates noticeably better results than his other 9 twist Shehanes. He is now VERY glad I talked him into that 8.5 twist. He states it will only be used at BIG matches.

Was that Krieger 1:8.5 a 4g or 5r?

 

[ShootDots]

Bob, it is a standard 4 groove Krieger. We (my friend Tom and I) bought our barrels at the same time. Tom just had his chambered right away and developed a load in it. I am just now doing mine..

 

[BOB LEE SWAGGER]

Bob, it is a standard 4 groove Krieger. We (my friend Tom and I) bought our barrels at the same time. Tom just had his chambered right away and developed a load in it. I am just now doing mine..

Thanks Ben. Why are you not doing a Shehane?

 

[ShootDots]

Bob, it is a standard 4 groove Krieger. We (my friend Tom and I) bought our barrels at the same time. Tom just had his chambered right away and developed a load in it. I am just now doing mine..

Thanks Ben. Why are you not doing a Shehane?

I have found that, for whatever reason, BOTH in my rifle(s) and in my friends barrels (all 3) that the BEST, most consistent accuracy, is somewhere about 2830-2850 with the 180 Hybrids. That is easily obtainable with a "straight .284" and NO FIREFORMING! I never minded fireforming but if I don't have to do it, WHY do it?

 

[BOB LEE SWAGGER]

Bob, it is a standard 4 groove Krieger. We (my friend Tom and I) bought our barrels at the same time. Tom just had his chambered right away and developed a load in it. I am just now doing mine..

Thanks Ben. Why are you not doing a Shehane?

I have found that, for whatever reason, BOTH in my rifle(s) and in my friends barrels (all 3) that the BEST, most consistent accuracy, is somewhere about 2830-2850 with the 180 Hybrids. That is easily obtainable with a "straight .284" and NO FIREFORMING! I never minded fireforming but if I don't have to do it, WHY do it?

HELPFUL!!!

 

[Lbart]

Sam,
I may not be one the "select few", but I would keep the Bartlein if I were you. I have used Krieger, Broughton, Shilen, Hart and Brux over the years and they all make excellent barrels. The Bartlein's I have used over the past ten years have been as good as or better than the other brands. All my Bartlein's have been 5R's and I have shot many F-Class records with them. I use 7/270 WSM's and 7 Shehane's. I test my barrels off the bench at 1k and they are all capable of very small groups. I have had very good luck with the 180 Hybrids.

 

[ShootDots]

Sam,
I may not be one the "select few", but I would keep the Bartlein if I were you. I have used Krieger, Broughton, Shilen, Hart and Brux over the years and they all make excellent barrels. The Bartlein's I have used over the past ten years have been as good as or better than the other brands. All my Bartlein's have been 5R's and I have shot many F-Class records with them. I use 7/270 WSM's and 7 Shehane's. I test my barrels off the bench at 1k and they are all capable of very small groups. I have had very good luck with the 180 Hybrids.

Larry, you are not part of "the select few">> You ARE THEE ONE! I have never seen anyone win major competitions as often as you have! If you don't flat out win them, you are biting at the heels of the winner. You have an amazing record indeed! You sit at the TOP of the "select few"!!

 

[Lbart]

Ben,
If memory serves, Samuel Hall is a very good and well known 600 yard BR shooter. I am pretty sure he was asking for opinions from his select few BR peers who have shot both 6's & 7mm's.

None the less thanks for the kind words.... but remember when you have shot as long as I have you are bound to win a few here and there. I only shoot 2-3 matches a year and I am finding it harder every year to win against you younger new guys. Hope to see you at Phoenix in October at the FCN's.

 

[JamesnTN]

Sam,
I may not be one the "select few", but I would keep the Bartlein if I were you. I have used Krieger, Broughton, Shilen, Hart and Brux over the years and they all make excellent barrels. The Bartlein's I have used over the past ten years have been as good as or better than the other brands. All my Bartlein's have been 5R's and I have shot many F-Class records with them. I use 7/270 WSM's and 7 Shehane's. I test my barrels off the bench at 1k and they are all capable of very small groups. I have had very good luck with the 180 Hybrids.

Larry,

What twist barrel are you shooting in your Shehane with the 5R Bartlein barrels.

 

[Lbart]

James,
All 11 of the Bartlein 7 Shehane's and 7/270 WSM's I have used have been 1 in 9's. I have shot 180 Hybrids at 2800 to 3050 fps at 1k and won from sea level to 6,600 feet in temps from freezing to 100+. Based on Bryan Litz's twist calculator I might be tempted to go with an 8.75 on my next order. Even an 8.5 would not be a bad choice if bullets continue get longer each year as in the past.

 

[JamesnTN]

James,
All 11 of the Bartlein 7 Shehane's and 7/270 WSM's I have used have been 1 in 9's. I have shot 180 Hybrids at 2800 to 3050 fps at 1k and won from sea level to 6,600 feet in temps from freezing to 100+. Based on Bryan Litz's twist calculator I might be tempted to go with an 8.75 on my next order. Even an 8.5 would not be a bad choice if bullets continue get longer each year as in the past.

Thanks, I may give a Bartlein a try next go around for my 284 Shehane. My Brux must be a slow barrel as I'm only getting 2868 fps from it but it's just 30" and I think you guys use 32"+?

 

[bsumoba]

I like 5R Bartlein and 8.5-9 twist for the 284 Shehane I have.

Maybe when/if these 185+gr bullets come out, the 1:8.25-1:8.75 twist would be better.

 

[kyreloader]

Thanks guys, these replys have helped me a lot! Now for the bullet in 180g. Is there any stand out for benchrest accuracy at 1000 yards. I know the Hybrid has the best BC, but will it group like the Berger VLDs or Sierra 180s? I know different barrels like different bullets, but sometimes some designs just shoot better on average. For instance the last lot of 6mm 105 Berger Hybrids are some of the best 6mm bullets i bave ever shot at 600 yards, and i have shot thousands and thousands of different bullets. Matt, i would love to come back to the World Open, but that is hard for me to do considering it falls on my wife's birhtday! Lol. I just got away with that ONCE. Maybe someday again! Samuel

I am just an F-class guy but in the few 7mm barrels that I have shot, the 180g Hybrids has shot the best. I have shot Berger 180g Hybrids/VLDs, 175g/180g SMKs, 177g Cauterucio VLDs, 180g Scenars. The 180g Hybrids shot very well in all of the barrels that I have shot. The important thing for me has been the fact that they shoot well off the lands. My current barrel shoots very well at 12-18 off the lands and another node at 25-31 off the lands. That allows me some leeway for bullet placement and freebore. The 180g Scenars also shoot very well, but I need more freebore than I have on my barrels to keep them out of the neck/shoulder junction. The 177s are very good bullets that shot the best in one of my barrels, but I had to put them in the lands to get them shooting and seemed like they needed to chase the lands which I do not like to do. The 175g SMKs always seem to shoot better for me than the same design in 180g grain but did not shoot as well as the other bullets. Lastly, the 180g VLDs never shot better for me than the Hybrid and had lower BC, so I havent needed to shoot them yet. I do check all of the above bullets when I get a new barrel.

If I was testing bullets for a new barrel, I would test them in the following order:
180g Hybrid
180g Scenar (if I had a +240 FB or more)
177g Cauterucio
180g VLD
175g SMK
180g SMK

Hope that helps.