Barrel Vise?

[spclark]

Looking for recommendations.

I don't need one too often but have decided it's time to move up from two V-blocks of oak & sections of 5/8" threaded rod.

What's the most effective practice to prevent a stainless barrel from marring in an aluminum-jawed barrel vise?

What of barrels having a slight taper forward of the chamber portion?

 

[hawghunter]

You can wrap rosin paper or thin strips of rubber around barrel then clamp vise on barrel. One of the vises i have has a taper alum bushing for the barrel taper hope this helps. Mark

 

[RJinTexas]

I use a piece of leather cut off of a belt about 1&1/2" wide cut it just long enough so that the ends just don't quite touch. This has worked well for me in my Davidson barrel vice purchased from Sinclair.

RJ

 

[fdshuster]

Plain old brown paper from shopping bags, wrapped tightly around the barrel 6 or 7 times. I position those barrels that have the step down taper in front of the chamber far enough to the rear so the Davidson barrel vise is making contact on the straight non tapered section of the barrel. Have never marked a barrel yet, blued, glass beaded or polished stainless.

 

[JohnnyJohnson]

Like Hawghunter I've have very good luck just using the Rosin paper. About 3 to 4 wraps around the barrel.

 

[hawghunter]

Lawrence or anyone what do you torque your barrels to, right now i hand tighten then one hit with a dead blow hammer thanks Mark

 

[fdshuster]

On the advice of my gunsmith I've always torqued to 65 ft. lb., and have never had a problem, 6ppc thru 308 chamberings. Others have told me "that's not enough", and still others have said "that's too much", so I guess it's whatever works for you and you are comfortable with.

 

[Tozguy]

May I ask Lawrence and Frank what lub you are using on the barrel threads?

 

[Preacher]

The heavy rolls that bathroom tissue and paper towels are wound around will do a good job preventing marks on barrel removal...

 

[Tozguy]

Lawrence, thanks for the response. Just curious, does the label on the container mention anything about reducing the applied torque with that lub?

 

[fdshuster]

Bought an 8 oz. plastic container of "Permatex Anti-Seize Lubricant" item # 80078, for a couple of bucks at the auto parts store. Enough to last several lifetimes. I've never noticed any increase or decrease in torque required to install (for proper headspace) or when removing. The requirement to use anti-seize became evident when my gunsmith fitted a new barrel to one of my switch-barrels. I loaned my torque wrench & the anti-seize and asked that he tighten the barrel to 65 ft. lbs. Picked up the rifle, fired about 350 rds., then tried to changeover to one of the other fitted barrels. Had my torque wrench up to 130 ft. lbs., and could not remove the barrel. Would not go any higher with the rear entry wrench (Davidson/ Rem 700), back to the shop & he had to remove it. He said he did tighten to 65 ft. lb., but for whatever reason did not use the anti-seize. Without the anti-seize, the torqueing, twisting, with a right hand twist rifling will tighten the barrel. When I do my own barrel changes, using anti-seize have never had a problem getting the barrel off, after it was set at 65 ft. lb. Just checked the can label. No mention of any change in torque settings.

 

[alton9]

Benchsource makes a really nice barrel vise & action wrench. They're great people to deal with, & they advertise on our site.

 

[Tozguy]

Frank, thanks for the info. Interesting comment about right hand twist tending to tighten a barrel like an impact driver. The principal became very clear to me the first time I did a power on stall in a Tri pacer. I understand that a barrel can be harder to crack loose because of 'cold welding' if anti sieze was not used. But if a barrel was torqued to 65 ft-lbs, wouldn't it take a very hard hold on the shooters part for the barrel to rotate in the action with no lub? If counter rotation from spinning bullets up to speed is enough to tighten a barrel wouldn't it reduce headspace? Not arguing, just want to learn as much as I can about fitting barrels and ultimately what is needed in the way of a vise.

 

[fdshuster]

Tozguy: I've never seen a change in headspace length when tightening a barrel. The gunsmith used my Snap on torque wrench to install the barrel, (without using the anti-seize as I requested), and I fired the 350 rounds without any adjustments to my redding FL neck bushing die. Headspace length was exactly the same as on the previous barrel, chambers cut with the same reamer, (mine). Since then I've remounted that barrel, using 65 ft. lb. & the anti-seize, and again, the headspace remains unchanged. I guess the steel compresses (?) to a point and goes no further (?). That too is one of the things above my pay grade, and I'll leave that to those better qualified than I. Yes, stalls can be interesting. early in my 27 year flying career I instructed at the time when the FAA required that spins be demonstrated, "entry and exit", so that was "interesting". Never had a student get airsick, so that was a big plus.

 

[spclark]

My guess is that whatever elastic capacity the barrel and action threads have goes to keeping the two pieces securely attached once the barrel shoulder's in solid contact with the corresponding mating surface of the action. That's why it's important to have everything square and flat so that this relationship produces a secure fit once everything's tightened sufficiently. Torquing a barrel is loading that elastic capability to a known state, allowing that a suitable torque wrench is employed.

 

[Tozguy]

Sp,
Please excuse me for getting off topic but you guys are fun to 'talk' wih.
Re the vise, I too am looking for a vise but want one that will do everything. Seems to me it would be a disappointment to get equiped then find out you can only do the easy ones without damaging the barrel or receiver. Why not get a vise that can remove the barrels as well as install them, including factory barrels. This is not a criticism of what others are doing, merely a reflection of how far gunsmiths live from my home.
Mike

 

[RJinTexas]

Mike, The only barrels that you won't be able to remove with a Davidson or Benchscource vice are factory installed barrel. That because at the factory they are put on by a 800 lb gorilla who using a four foot cheater bar. A lot of gun smith build a press using a hydraulic jack framed with "I" beams steel forming a "H" style press like the ones sold at McMaster Carr. They press two steel V shaped blocks together and are capable of straighening other heavy steel objects. Most use aluminum insert along with wrapping the barrel with paper to protect the finish. These are great for really tough removal but take up a lot of room were the Davidson style vice can be removed from your work bench and stored until needed.

RJ

 

[spclark]

Yeah, "talkin" here takes the sting outa not being able to shoot outdoors for 6 months where I live.

RJinTx has it right though; if you have the space (and $$) for it, a tool that will "do it all" is the right path to walk if you expect to be doing things like cracking factory or military barrels loose:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#h-frame-presses/=azl62n

Or pressing bearing races into wheel hubs & such.

My needs are much less in scope: I desire a more effective vise arrangement (designed for the purpose) than what I made up from stuff I had in my garage / cave the first time I wanted to change barrels on the T2k I sold last year.

 

[Tozguy]

Checked out the link above. Thanks. Are those tools for removing barrels or for squashing them?
On the serious side, wouldn't it be better to increase the contact area for the tougher jobs than to increase pressure on a limited contact area?
Wouldn't it be nice if we could make a vise using a long connecting rod (from a diesel engine hopefully) with a big end ID including plain bearing of the right size. Even a large ID rod could be workable if shimmed with aluminum flat stock of the right thickness to get a tight fit on the barrel. It might even be possible to gang some rods up on the barrel to get extra grip.
If it looks like I have more time than brains well.....

 

[spclark]

On the serious side, wouldn't it be better to increase the contact area for the tougher jobs than to increase pressure on a limited contact area?

You'd think so, wouldn't you? I tried that, but even with the addition of another pair of pressure bolts but things didn't improve.

I trust the idea is to place a barrel in any vise at a point where the barrel OD is as parallel as possible, i.e. right in front of the mounting threads, on the chamber area. Adding vise contact area won't help if the chamber area's fairly short. Trying to grip a tapered barrel without a properly tapered adapter (bushing halves) is an exercise in futility.