Barrel tuners. Good or a waste of time?

[Bart B.]

I think Varmint Al's web site has the best info on both how and why barrels vibrate. And the hows and whys tuners work.

All of us don't need to understand all that stuff. As long as those using tuners adjust them to bring home more marbles than others, they've done most of, if not all of, the right stuff.

That said, it is interesting to some to know the hows and whys it works as it does.

PS: I'll add my opinion as to what the first thing to know is: what has to happen to the barrel so all bullets leaving at different muzzle velocities have minimal vertical spread on target.

 

[hpshooter]

"Hopefully all the nonsense didnt run I can't be the only one who was looking forward to his post."

+1.

Have never run a tuner but vividly remember a family friend who demonstrated changing group size on his 52 Winchester by sliding a ring of solid core solder back and forth on the barrel. This was around 1954.

 

[Uthink Uknow]

The first tuner I looked at closely was a Dwight Scott model on Dick Wright's rifle. Dwight's tuner is/was a band clamped around the barrel near the muzzle. It incorporated a threaded section as well through which a threaded rod was run. To tune, you threaded the rod fore and aft to move the weight of the rod. Dick didn't do well with it but then he didn't have it on his rifle for long and he didn't really mess with it much.
We have about 10-12 of Gene Begg's tuners in our arsenal. That, in and of itself is a testament to what I think of tuners. I was the most outspoken critic of tuners and I told Gene Beggs and the rest of the world what I thought of them. I said I'd put one on after someone who has never beaten me before uses a tuner and beats me. Well, I went to the IBS Score National in Ohio and Hal beat me. Later that week I was talking to Gene Beggs, ordered a couple tuners, threaded a barrel or two, and the rest is history. The secret, as I see it, is to test, test, test and keep copious notes of what each barrel likes. I went to the IBS Score National in Iowa and won the Hunter Class.
One other thing: I secure my mirage shield on the barrel with a couple pieces of hook and loop. I am very careful that the mirage shield goes on exactly the same every time I get to the range.

 

[swd]

Well said Richard. Most shooters don't really care how a tuner works any more than they care about phases of the moon.

It has always helped me to remember that a barrel tuner works exactly like the focus ring on a scope. I often ask those new to tuners, "Can you focus a scope?" They usually answer with something like, "Of course." Then I say, "If you can focus your scope, you can 'focus' your barrel/tuner using the same technique."

i.e., Place the tuner on 'zero' and fire a two or three shot test group on the sighter. If the first two shots don't go in a dot, there is no reason to fire a third. A third shot won't make the group any smaller but if the first two shots dot up, go ahead and fire a third to see if it will join the first two. If three shots dot up it's very likely that two more will also go in the group in which case we have been extremely lucky by having the tuner in the 'in tune' position to begin with.( There is about a one in five chance of this happening.) But most of us are rarely that lucky so lets discuss what to do if the first two or three shots of the test group look as if they were fired from a shotgun.

Obviously, if the test group is ragged, the rifle is out of tune so lets make a one mark adjustment of the tuner. "Which way?" you ask. It doesn't matter; one mark in either direction will make a noticeable difference in the next test group so let's begin with one mark out toward the muzzle. If the test group gets bigger, we went the wrong way in which case we go back where we were, ('zero') and then make a one mark adjustment in toward the breech. If the next test group looks better but there is still about one bullet hole of verticle, go one more mark in the same direction and you should be right in tune. Make a note of the temperature and tuner setting then go to the record!

If this sounds time consuming and complicated don't worry; in short order you will be doing it easily and quickly during the warmup period.

And that's all there is to it!

Next time we will discuss keeping the rifle in tune throughout the day as atmospheric conditions change. Remember to keep it simple. Don't fuss with trivia and try to make something hard out of it; it really IS that simple.

Later,

Gene Beggs

Gene, prior to tuning what kind of load work up do you do?
Thank you!

 

[mikeeg02]

Gene, prior to tuning what kind of load work up do you do?
Thank you!

I am relatively new to using a tuner, but I think you set the tuner to your "zero" and do standard load development. Then when your close or pretty happy, try adjusting your tuner. A tuner wont make a bad load great. But it can make a good load better.

 

[jimmymac]

I am relatively new to using a tuner, but I think you set the tuner to your "zero" and do standard load development. Then when your close or pretty happy, try adjusting your tuner. A tuner wont make a bad load great. But it can make a good load better.

I am under the impression that you tune for powder charge and seating depth without the tuner screwed on. Once you have your load, then you add the tuner in to the mix.

What say you, tuner experts?

 

[Bart B.]

Have never run a tuner but vividly remember a family friend who demonstrated changing group size on his 52 Winchester by sliding a ring of solid core solder back and forth on the barrel. This was around 1954.

Who remembers the tuning screws in Remington 40X match rifle's fore end tip at 4:30 and 7:30 on the barrel with click adjustments to put different force on the barrel?


Al Freeland designed and patented the first ones.

My first personal match rifle was one of them. Never worked as well as advertised. Different positions sling tensions bent the fore end inconsistently; Remington finally quit doing that. Totally free floated barrels worked better.

Later, muzzle tuners put the icing on the accuracy cake

 

[mikeeg02]

I am under the impression that you tune for powder charge and seating depth without the tuner screwed on. Once you have your load, then you add the tuner in to the mix.

What say you, tuner experts?

That may be the "right" way. But I wouldnt want to make such a big change in barrel harmonics without tuning for it first. But maybe I am doing it wrong. Targets dont seem to look bad at 1k. But I have been wrong before.

 

[jimmymac]

That may be the "right" way. But I wouldnt want to make such a big change in barrel harmonics without tuning for it first. But maybe I am doing it wrong. Targets dont seem to look bad at 1k. But I have been wrong before.

I have no idea if that is the right way Mike, but I remember someone explaining it that way. Can't remember if was Gene or Mike or Richard for that matter. I think it was one of those guys, but my memory isn't what it once was. I shoot short range.

 

[swd]

Who remembers the tuning screws in Remington 40X match rifle's forend tip at 4:30 and 7:30 on the barrel with click adjustments to put different force on the barrel?

View attachment 1076811

They work surprisingly well as does the barrel band tensioner on the Win 75.

 

[mikeeg02]

I have no idea if that is the right way Mike, but I remember someone explaining it that way. Can't remember if was Gene or Mike or Richard for that matter. I think it was one of those guys, but my memory isn't what it once was. I shoot short range.

Ive heard people say that before too, it didnt make sense to me, so I didnt try that myself yet.

 

[Bart B.]

They work surprisingly well as does the barrel band tensioner on the Win 75.

Read my edited post.

I experimented with barrel band tension rings on Win 75 and 52B or C versions. All shot most accurate without them and free floating barrels.

 

[swd]

Read my edited post.

I experimented with barrel band tension rings on Win 75 and 52B or C versions. All shot most accurate without them and free floating barrels.

Yep I missed that. I had good luck with them. I have no doubt at a very high level they are very easily surpassed but with mid grade ammo they always made my rifles shoot a little better.

 

[Mulligan]

I am under the impression that you tune for powder charge and seating depth without the tuner screwed on. Once you have your load, then you add the tuner in to the mix.

What say you, tuner experts?

If that’s the case, I messed up........ again.

I thought Mike said to screw the tuner all the way in, back it out ~3/4 of a full revolution, leave it there as you do your normal load development, then adjust the tuner one mark at at time until the groups tighten up.

Going out to test the tuner in the AM
CW

 

[Bart B.]

I am under the impression that you tune for powder charge and seating depth without the tuner screwed on. Once you have your load, then you add the tuner in to the mix.

What say you, tuner experts?

I think you have to tune across each load.

Each load has its unique barrel time; faster ones leave sooner than slower ones. For a given barrel profile and rifle, adjust the tuner for minimum vertical spread on target.

Across several loads and tuner settings, one will have the smallest vertical spread on target.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

The first tuner I looked at closely was a Dwight Scott model on Dick Wright's rifle. Dwight's tuner is/was a band clamped around the barrel near the muzzle. It incorporated a threaded section as well through which a threaded rod was run. To tune, you threaded the rod fore and aft to move the weight of the rod. Dick didn't do well with it but then he didn't have it on his rifle for long and he didn't really mess with it much.
We have about 10-12 of Gene Begg's tuners in our arsenal. That, in and of itself is a testament to what I think of tuners. I was the most outspoken critic of tuners and I told Gene Beggs and the rest of the world what I thought of them. I said I'd put one on after someone who has never beaten me before uses a tuner and beats me. Well, I went to the IBS Score National in Ohio and Hal beat me. Later that week I was talking to Gene Beggs, ordered a couple tuners, threaded a barrel or two, and the rest is history. The secret, as I see it, is to test, test, test and keep copious notes of what each barrel likes. I went to the IBS Score National in Iowa and won the Hunter Class.
One other thing: I secure my mirage shield on the barrel with a couple pieces of hook and loop. I am very careful that the mirage shield goes on exactly the same every time I get to the range.

I was in Ohio and Hal put on a show in some, shall we say...trying conditions! I believe that was Hurricane Ike, made it all the way to the Great Lakes! I also think that may've been the last match I shot without a tuner, too.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I am under the impression that you tune for powder charge and seating depth without the tuner screwed on. Once you have your load, then you add the tuner in to the mix.

What say you, tuner experts?

It seems to work both ways. I can't wrap my head around that! I prefer to do as Mike says and set it to zero, or whatever and just not touch it while doing load work up. It just makes the most sense to me, to work up loads with it as you plan to shoot it...but it does work either way, IME.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I agree Mike. I have hung fixed weights from barrels and you would expect a drastic change but you dont see it on target. Thats some of the reason I dont go along with applying standard vibration analysis to barrels. It just doesnt line up with what you see on target. I have come to a personal conclusion that a barrel has a standard harmonic (while the bullets in the barrel) and we cant do a whole lot to change it, we have to work with it. I am starting to think tuners may be able to do some things we cant do with powder/seating alone however.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I agree Mike. I have hung fixed weights from barrels and you would expect a drastic change but you dont see it on target. Thats some of the reason I dont go along with applying standard vibration analysis to barrels. It just doesnt line up with what you see on target. I have come to a personal conclusion that a barrel has a standard harmonic (while the bullets in the barrel) and we cant do a whole lot to change it, we have to work with it. I am starting to think tuners may be able to do some things we cant do with powder/seating alone however.

I won't disagree but I think the sine wave is pretty clear in this photo. To me, it appears to be following the frequency change and bullet exit times, like one would expect. The photo is sideways....And that's one accurate rifle, too!

 

[Alex Wheeler]

What is that target? Tuner adjustments? Obviously a tuner, powder, seating, ext changes bullet exit timing relative muzzle position, I look at tuners as a barrel length adjusters. Which is why they seem to act like seating adjustments, IMO. What I mean in regards to changing a barrels vibration is that it does not seem like we can change the basic vibration pattern that effects a bullet. We can do a lot of different things to a barrel and we dont see much change in how a cartridge reacts to powder changes. Node spacing stays pretty much the same. Im not the tuner expert so my comments are not based on how tuners work, rather hanging weights or playing with contours. I think amplitude is where we should focus. But Im not sure that will improve a great tune, but it helps an out of tune load hold better.