Barrel Nut - Less Enthused Now (for my use)

[NorCalMikie]

Contoured or straight pipe barrel blank, your chamber reamer cut to YOUR specs, (that you custom ordered way ahead of time) shipped off to your FAVORITE smith, threaded and chambered, returned whenever they get around to it. Cost less than say $800.00 +? That's with the cost of the reamer and which will be a one time fee.
In my case, I ship my contoured barrel and my custom ordered reamer off to my smith, he threads the barrel and chambers it in about a week or so and has it back to me in nothing flat, as long as it isn't hunting season.
Never a rush and he's all over it. Maybe in the $200.00 to $300.00 range and NO I won't tell you his name.
With a nut, spin the barrel on , set the head space to YOUR specs and go shooting. Don't like that caliber? Order up another barrel, find or buy another custom reamer, have it threaded and chambered, spin it on, set the head space and go shooting.
Shouldered barrel? The barrel AND action is down and out till the smith can get to it. Shouldered barrel cut WITHOUT the action? You won't know till you get the action and barrel put together. Sum sing wong? Ship BOTH the action and barrel back to get ironed out. Now you wait.
All of my Savage rigs (I think I have 5, I'd have to look) have the nut. All shot bug holes. If I don't like that caliber or want to try something different, I don't have to depend on anybody but myself to spin my barrel on so I can go shooting.
I'll take the nut job any day.

 

[urbanrifleman]

One more realizing the shortcomings of the nut. Perfect for a mass produced loose tolerance manufacturing environment but not for pure accuracy for those that know the difference. Welcome.

Ridiculous. Have you ever even had a good nut barrel? I BET YOU HAVE NOT, and you are just talking out of the side of your butt. Other than the clocking there is ZERO difference in accuracy. The nut has SEVERAL advantages over a machined barrel.

You can change the barrel to another action without machining. Try that with a shoulder.

I get so tired of the constant bashing of the nut. It is just ridiculous.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Ridiculous. Have you ever even had a good nut barrel? I BET YOU HAVE NOT, and you are just talking out of the side of your butt. Other than the clocking there is ZERO difference in accuracy. The nut has SEVERAL advantages over a machined barrel.

You can change the barrel to another action without machining. Try that with a shoulder.

I get so tired of the constant bashing of the nut. It is just ridiculous.

Theres constant bashing for a reason. Tinkerers love the nuts just like they love the non glue in action. Nuts have been out for how many decades now and are still not on the most accurate rifles when any of the top gunsmiths could put nuts on any action they wanted to.

 

[mike a]

Ridiculous. Have you ever even had a good nut barrel? I BET YOU HAVE NOT, and you are just talking out of the side of your butt. Other than the clocking there is ZERO difference in accuracy. The nut has SEVERAL advantages over a machined barrel.

You can change the barrel to another action without machining. Try that with a shoulder.

I get so tired of the constant bashing of the nut. It is just ridiculous.

Tired of the bashing! Try having a creedmoor with a nut. That's double bashing.

 

[normmatzen]

What AckleymanII said plus;

I have two long range Bench Rest rifles with PTA and started BR with a barrel nut. The gun shot well enough for me to win a bunch of ribbons.
Next barrels were all non-nut barrels and they are quicker to remove/install.
Had a 284 WIN take-off barrel that dropped off it's edge after ~1500 rounds.
Had a great gunsmith set the old barrel back and threaded it for a barrel nut. That way, I can put it on either action. And, with 1 1/2" removed, it does shoot fantastic! I have it on my heavy gun now for a practice barrel.
I would say that if one doesn't like to pay for a new barrel to be head-spaced, a barrel nut will be just fine! I shoot with 2-3 other guys with Savage BR guns and they do not have an accuracy problem due to not clocking the barrel at 12:00. Matter of fact, one guy just won our last 1000yd match! Shooting is a Mental Effort!

 

[Clancy]

Educate me, on your reference to 12'oclock.


You make no reference as to how it shoots. Does it shoot as well as a $650 rifle or does it shoot as well as a $6500 rifle.
I have a couple of savage rifles chambered in a "traditional" way with a shoulder. And more than a few with nuts.
The nuts make it easy to "test drive" a caliber if you so desire.
I won't say one is better than the other, as both have their merits and I have seen exceptional groups from both. Maybe not true BR performance, but then you don't see many across the counter mass produced actions at a BR match either.

You can also also test drive cartridges with a Bighorn, BAT or Inpact, as well as some others, without the use of a nut.

TL3 barrels, for example, are just a phone call away.

 

[Ggmac]

It's his opinion , ask him again after a few barrels . They have a place , but if you want a special reamer and barrel why would you even consider the nut UNTIL you add in all the extras needed AND order a few extra barrels to offset the tool cost . He could of easily had a no nut set up for the same as a nut set up with the tools needed . Or he could have taken his nut setup to the smith to install , or ...
Just my opinion .
Read ultimate Accuracy facts ( Vaughn ) concerning the benefits of alternate threaded unions

 

[vlcakc]

Cmon Guys! Lighten up! No need for personal remarks here. The question of whether to use barrel nuts or fit to a shoulder really depends on the rifle's intended use and personal preference. Neither way is necessarily right or wrong. I have rifles built both ways and although I prefer barrels fit to a shoulder, the ones with barrel nuts work just fine too. Good Shooting! Vic

 

[mikecr]

Nothing wrong with the barrel nut system.

 

[Flyshooter]

I was enthusiastic about the barrel nut approach on my Savage (avoids gunsmith wait), but now, with a Savage based 6mmBR (w/barrel nut), I am less enthused. Perhaps this will be the case for others (maybe not), but for those contemplating a barrel nut gun, perhaps my experience will give some insight.

I decided to build a 6mmBR using a Savage Precision Target Action. I did not use a prefit barrel, because the chamberings (reamer dimensions) were not to my liking. I wanted a tighter neck, and short freebore for my light short range bullets. Some prefit makers will use your reamer (but in one case, that was an extra $50, and it would take a while to get it done). I also wanted a cut-rifled barrel and a specific twist rate. I could not find any pre-fits that met my requirements.

I got a Brux barrel blank (cut-rifled), and had a gunsmith prepare it for my Savage, using a borrowed reamer I liked. That was sent off to the gunsmith, as he did not have a reamer with the specs I wanted. I did save money on the barrel work as there is no fitting to the action. But, the wait was long.

Once the barrel showed up, I bought a barrel nut wrench, a custom barrel nut, and an action wrench (used to hold the action while I screwed the barrel on w/nut) and a GO gauge. Close to $150 with shipping.

My total investment was now about $650+. And what did that get me? A good barrel, but one that does not have the bore curve timed to 12 o'clock, and takes more time and effort to switch barrels vs a shouldered barrel. I don't intend to switch barrels until it wears out, but the point is, a CUSTOM barrel on a Savage w/barrel nut may not make much sense vs a custom shouldered barrel. The overall costs may be closer than it would first appear.

It seems to me that the barrel nut approach is fine for those that want an off-the-shelf good button rifled barrel available in twists and contours that will suit your needs and where reamer specs are not critical and allow you to fit the barrel, at home, with a modest investment in tools. The more barrel nut rifles you have, the better the investment in tools becomes.

I am building a 6.5x47 on a Howa action. I can do this with a barrel nut, but it makes little sense. A custom fitted shouldered barrel will be exactly as I want it, not just what happens to be in the shelf. There will be no investment in a headspace gauge, barrel nut wrench, and custom barrel nut. I do not expect to have to buy a custom reamer in this case (thankfully). My round hole action wrench that works for the Savage works on the flat bottom Howa if I flip the action wrench cap over (it has a flat side).

Moral of the story? Know your wants and needs and what it will take to get their for both approaches. You might be surprised.

Phil

 

[Flyshooter]

I know of one IR50/50 world record that currently exist from a "nut" attached barreled rifle.

The availability of cnc nuts for the 700 actions is in fact progress, however everyone has their opinion about that and I defend their right to have an opinion. Never the less the nut allows just about anyone who can change an alternator to change calibers or barrels quickly and safely.

Installed more then a couple zero free bore .223AI & 6BR's, those rifles will shock most shooters regarding their accuracy. Had at least one custom PPC with a custom action and the whole works......shot terrific. But the difference between that an a nut attached barreled rifle is a couple of thousand dollars and perhaps one tenth of an inch at a 100yd's......which is a mile in centerfire benchrest........but most will never shoot centerfire benchrest.

Fun to shoot small.....not much fun to argue about how to do it, no need to anyway....pick a game and shoot it chances are someone with a nut attached barrel will finish ahead of you or right behind you.......makes you think.

 

[alinwa]

"You are just talking out the side of your butt!"

Man, now there's one I hadn't heard...... might just steal it......


learnin' every day



al

 

[Nature Boy]

Tired of the bashing! Try having a creedmoor with a nut. That's double bashing.

Just thinking about that gave me a concussion

 

[mikecr]

I don't think a barrel nut advantage was supposed to be considered as easier barrel changing. Why would Savage care at all about that? And why would they go through all the added complexity for it, when they could just shoulder barrels like everyone else?
I believe it was put in the design for better barrel connection, as their engineering happened to be aware of.

Their floating bolt head is a sound design as well. It's real advantage is not for changing cartridges, but for better established bolt face perpendicularity.
There are other attributes demonstrating that Savage knows how to design guns, so the mob is likely wrong in assuming otherwise.

 

[timeout]

"You are just talking out the side of your butt!"

Man, now there's one I hadn't heard...... might just steal it......


learnin' every day



al

Talking out your butt is a bit lame. Now talking out your azz because your mouth knows better .........

 

[moondog]

Funny thing, I have a couple of Savages.
Neither of them have a nut now!

 

[MikeMcCasland]

I don't think a barrel nut advantage was supposed to be considered as easier barrel changing. Why would Savage care at all about that? And why would they go through all the added complexity for it, when they could just shoulder barrels like everyone else?
I believe it was put in the design for better barrel connection, as their engineering happened to be aware of.

Their floating bolt head is a sound design as well. It's real advantage is not for changing cartridges, but for better established bolt face perpendicularity.
There are other attributes demonstrating that Savage knows how to design guns, so the mob is likely wrong in assuming otherwise.

Just a guess, but I suspect the barrel nut and floating bolt heads were made for ease of manufacturing (allows for looser tolerances) and assembly; not so much because they're more accurate. They're certainly accurate for factory rifles though.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Just a guess, but I suspect the barrel nut and floating bolt heads were made for ease of manufacturing (allows for looser tolerances) and assembly; not so much because they're more accurate. They're certainly accurate for factory rifles though.

And the floating bolt head fixes the looseness there. Then the awful trigger with the safety in the blade and weird cocking piece is to make up for the loose bolt, etc. its made for high speed mass production and is excellent at that. It just so happens to shoot way better than it should!

 

[RW]

And the floating bolt head fixes the looseness there. Then the awful trigger with the safety in the blade and weird cocking piece is to make up for the loose bolt, etc. its made for high speed mass production and is excellent at that. It just so happens to shoot way better than it should!

I agree that they are not Rem 700's and I have both and I have both of the savages with and with out a barrel nut and back when they were the only left handed actions available you were very limited for a hunting rifle{ I would rather shoot a right handed bolt for most every thing else' right handed bolt left hand stock} Rem have a way better after market accessories than the Savage and I have a Savage 243 that when friends bad mouth Savages I say lay out your folding money and we will shoot!! I'm not behind them just saying they both have their place and if you are satisfied with one or the other so be it!! Kind of like a ford and a chevy thing!! RW

 

[chino1969]

I was enthusiastic about the barrel nut approach on my Savage (avoids gunsmith wait), but now, with a Savage based 6mmBR (w/barrel nut), I am less enthused. Perhaps this will be the case for others (maybe not), but for those contemplating a barrel nut gun, perhaps my experience will give some insight.

I decided to build a 6mmBR using a Savage Precision Target Action. I did not use a prefit barrel, because the chamberings (reamer dimensions) were not to my liking. I wanted a tighter neck, and short freebore for my light short range bullets. Some prefit makers will use your reamer (but in one case, that was an extra $50, and it would take a while to get it done). I also wanted a cut-rifled barrel and a specific twist rate. I could not find any pre-fits that met my requirements.

I got a Brux barrel blank (cut-rifled), and had a gunsmith prepare it for my Savage, using a borrowed reamer I liked. That was sent off to the gunsmith, as he did not have a reamer with the specs I wanted. I did save money on the barrel work as there is no fitting to the action. But, the wait was long.

Once the barrel showed up, I bought a barrel nut wrench, a custom barrel nut, and an action wrench (used to hold the action while I screwed the barrel on w/nut) and a GO gauge. Close to $150 with shipping.

My total investment was now about $650+. And what did that get me? A good barrel, but one that does not have the bore curve timed to 12 o'clock, and takes more time and effort to switch barrels vs a shouldered barrel. I don't intend to switch barrels until it wears out, but the point is, a CUSTOM barrel on a Savage w/barrel nut may not make much sense vs a custom shouldered barrel. The overall costs may be closer than it would first appear.

It seems to me that the barrel nut approach is fine for those that want an off-the-shelf good button rifled barrel available in twists and contours that will suit your needs and where reamer specs are not critical and allow you to fit the barrel, at home, with a modest investment in tools. The more barrel nut rifles you have, the better the investment in tools becomes.

I am building a 6.5x47 on a Howa action. I can do this with a barrel nut, but it makes little sense. A custom fitted shouldered barrel will be exactly as I want it, not just what happens to be in the shelf. There will be no investment in a headspace gauge, barrel nut wrench, and custom barrel nut. I do not expect to have to buy a custom reamer in this case (thankfully). My round hole action wrench that works for the Savage works on the flat bottom Howa if I flip the action wrench cap over (it has a flat side).

Moral of the story? Know your wants and needs and what it will take to get their for both approaches. You might be surprised.

Phil

Phil,
I have a Savage single shot action set up as a switch barrel rig and I have found the same as you. It is great as a basic accurate varminter and shooter but nowhere near my shouldered barrels for my other actions. The appeal of a switch barrel rig with pre-fit barrels will still get a better than factory result. You are right in your admonition to know one's wants and needs before going this route.