Barrel Nut Disadvantages?

[tom]

I vote for Glenn, he misses his nuts.

Tom

 

[urbanrifleman]

I'm really just trying to figure out what the motivation of all of this really is. None of you make or sell nut barrels. But you seem to be obsessed with them. It's pretty clear no one has any previous experience with them (I asked), and don't intend to have a future with them, so it seems the only purpose of all of this is to point the finger at something that you don't like and slap each other on the back.

 

[tom]

I don't build or sell anything, and only spend, spend and spend some more, in pursuit of ever smaller groups/aggs. If Jackie's rifle aggs better with a nut, I will spend yet again and try it myself. I'm not to proud, whatever shoots smaller, more often, without any stupid, is what I'm after.

Tom

 

[urbanrifleman]

I don't build or sell anything, and only spend, spend and spend some more, in pursuit of ever smaller groups/aggs. If Jackie's rifle aggs better with a nut, I will spend yet again and try it myself. I'm not to proud, whatever shoots smaller, more often, without any stupid, is what I'm after.

Tom

I don't see how that would prove anything. One barrel? That's proof of what?

Honest question.

 

[tom]

I don't see how that would prove anything. One barrel? That's proof of what?

It's the SAME barrel, set up each way. It would isolate that one and only variable, just like we test powder, or seating etc. And he will be comparing the actual thing that matters, with a real rifle that's capable of seeing it...I'm assuming it'll be a ppc or 30 br, and not a 270 win lol. I don't see how it wouldn't be proof, whichever way aggs better, would be proven to be better. Whether that would translate to a 28 plus inch barrel in my game, I don't know, but I'd give it a go if he sees agging capabilities that beats what we're doing now.

Tom

 

[urbanrifleman]

It's the SAME barrel, set up each way. It would isolate that one and only variable, just like we test powder, or seating etc. And he will be comparing the actual thing that matters, with a real rifle that's capable of seeing it...I'm assuming it'll be a ppc or 30 br, and not a 270 win lol. I don't see how it wouldn't be proof, whichever way aggs better, would be proven to be better. Whether that would translate to a 28 plus inch barrel in my game, I don't know, but I'd give it a go if he sees agging capabilities that beats what we're doing now.

Tom

Or you could flip a coin. Statistically speaking, it would be the same.

 

[tom]

Or you could flip a coin. Statistically speaking, it would be the same.

If we're talking about a 270 Winchester, yes I'd agree. Benchrest agg winners are often down to the 4th decimal. If Jackie sees a difference much greater than about 20 thousandths on a rifle agging under .2 (no pressure Jackie), then I would say that's substantial, as aggs are statistics. I've seen 1,000 yard aggs determined by .007 after 5 months long aggs, and I was on the short end....I'd have like to have had that .2 on each target in that instance.

Tom

 

[Old Navy]

Come on you guys without nuts. Some are dam good shooters. Maybe not world class but close enough. This is one of Brad's straight barrels at 26". This was shot with a POS savage Model 12 with a six ounce trigger and no flags. Shots 1, 5 and 6 in that group. And I am 79 with poor eye sight.

 

[Mdhmsmith]

I’m interested to see if the load changes between setups. You would be making changes to the fulcrum of the barrel by changing attachment methods.

 

[INTJ]

I'm really just trying to figure out what the motivation of all of this really is. None of you make or sell nut barrels. But you seem to be obsessed with them. It's pretty clear no one has any previous experience with them (I asked), and don't intend to have a future with them, so it seems the only purpose of all of this is to point the finger at something that you don't like and slap each other on the back.

I have made several nut barrels. I will probably have to do so again. Like I mentioned earlier, I have also shot several barrel nut guns. As well as barrel clamp guns.

None of those have shot as well as shouldered barrels for me, but that isn't an apples to apples comparison. If this test ever happens we will have one good data point.

The next questions that come up are how do we make a barrel nut connection better? Maybe a longer nut? A thicker nut?

What I visualize in my mind is the nut deforming as it is torqued, meaning that it isn't evenly bearing against the receiver face. Does that happen? Does it affect anything?

The practical application for me is I have a Savage target rifle I will have to rebarrel soon. It is a long range rifle in 338 Lapua with a 30" barrel, though it's a bit skinnier than I like for this application.

I convinced the customer to go to a 338 Lapua IMP. I also convinced him to let me make a shouldered barrel and get rid of the nut. It would be nice to have a data point to say whether or not that is the best way or if it even matters.

 

[Fuj]

The pissin' match was settled many posts back. The thread is (again) about barrels nuts and if they are at a disadvantage to a shouldered barrel.

To truly solve the issue, there needs to be serval tests involving barrels of varying lengths and weights. They need to be shot from a BR rifle at long range, and shot by someone who knows what they are doing.

My vote would be "Tack Driver" style !! 300 meters. All disciplines are
invited.

I need to throw a curve in the conversation. On my Savage actions, I
shoulder against the lug and not really on the action. ?? Target actions
I know of have integrated lugs. So in some cases you have 4 pieces to
the puzzle (action, lug, barrel, and nut)..... So in effect, an action with a
separate lug has 2 shoulders if you want to call it a shoulder.....Thinkin'
out loud again.....

 

[Fuj]

The next questions that come up are how do we make a barrel nut connection better? Maybe a longer nut? A thicker nut?

I posted something up earlier, but deleted it. In effect, I had made
a nut that was 2 inches long because that was all the straight on the
barrel. I used 1.375" ID 4130 moly tubing. The idea was to bed action
with longer nut into one of my chassis.

 

[Rat Rifle]

Like I said, the chances of being violently killed by a baby bunny rabbit are low, but never zero.........

The trick is, to sneak in there when the Bunny Rabbit is “ON BREAK” !!

 

[urbanrifleman]

A data set of one is not a data set at all.

Of course, I've got several hundred data points on this topic. I appear to be the only one posting here that does.

I've had high masters in multiple disciplines replace their shouldered match rifle barrels with my nut barrels and never go back. To this day they are still shooting them. That's some data.

I've seen threads here where people argue that recontouring a barrel after chambering would essentially "change" the performance. I don't agree with that, but apparently there are lots of guys who post here that do. So, I would think that would skew the nature of the results.

The tone of this whole discussion has not been to "improve" anything at all. Mostly, as far as I can tell the entire purpose is to downgrade something most of you admittedly know almost nothing about, (because you have no experience with it), yet seem to have some very strong opinions on the subject.

"I made a nut barrel once" is not experience. It certainly would not qualify as experience on any other subject debated here.

 

[rijndael]

The next questions that come up are how do we make a barrel nut connection better? Maybe a longer nut? A thicker nut?

What problems did the BugHoles BugNut attempt to fix?

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I vote for Glenn, he misses his nuts.

Tom

If one of you wants to test this I"ll do the work.

 

[rijndael]

What problems did the BugHoles BugNut attempt to fix?

BugNut

The BugNut is an attempt to address these issues and improve on all:

• Any 1.20 or 1.250 breech barrel can be used, from your lightest sporter to a Heavy Varmint. Barrel should have a breech cylinder length of at least 2.0”
• The BugNut wrench engages significantly more surface area than the Savage wrench
• The BugNut wrench is a two piece wrench, and can be “assembled” over the nut after barreled action is in the barrel vise
• The BugNut is .050 larger than the breech of the barrel, and should drop in to a traditional composite stock with little to no inletting. Most composite stocks have .030 clearance per side here, so clearance must be verified (or created if necessary)
• BugNut barrels have significantly more material around the chamber, and can be used with short magnum and Ultramag cases

 

[urbanrifleman]

I just keep hearing "hurumph hurumph" hahahaha

 

[Fuj]

I've had high masters in multiple disciplines replace their shouldered match rifle barrels with my nut barrels and never go back. To this day they are still shooting them. That's some data.

This does'nt track......

 

[urbanrifleman]

This does'nt track......

I don't understand what that means.