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Barrel Nitriding a 23" 6 Dasher / 6 Creedmoor

Barrel Nitriding a 23" 6 Dasher / 6 Creedmoor:

I am building two rifles - #1 is a 260 AI @ 27". #2 is a 23" 6 Dasher or 6 Creedmoor.

I plan on having the barrel on the 6mm Nitrided. I don't have the internet browsing time I once did. If anyone can drop a definitive link or two on the different processes I'd really appreciate it. I'd like to have my ducks in a row when I drop the second rifle's parts off at the smith.

I've seen the darker nitriding, but does anyone Titanium Nitrite coat their barrels/actions?

I know that there's a SEARCH function and have used it a plenty, here and elsewhere, but I'm very limited on time these days. Any help is greatly appreciated.

If there's any horror stories of nitriding on the performance of what will be a "tactical" rig's consistency or CBS please share those as well. I've gotten behind the cutting edge on some of this new stuff. Thanks!
 
A search is easy if you do it. I have shared this on the forum many times.

Butch

I was the Armorer for the Army Reserve Shooting Team for over a decade so I do have quite a bit of experience with both processes.

As I am sure you know, most G.I. barrels are made from chrome molly steel which is more susceptible to corrosion than stainless steel. Chrome lining is used on G.I. bores both to extend their shooting life and to protect them from corrosion that can be a problem in battlefield conditions where maintenance is sometimes sporadic or insufficient. Chrome lining does a pretty good job of protecting battlefield weapons. One of the objections to chrome lining is that it is thought to decrease accuracy. This seems to be a valid criticism and is backed up by machine rest tests I have conducted of identical barrels (same manufacturer but half chrome lined and half not).

As you are aware most barrel "wear" is in the throat area. So eventually the hot gasses from the burning of the gunpowder will eat thru the chrome lining at the throat. It is rumored that at this point accuracy will plummet but I have not found that to be true. (Or if true, it is overstated or maybe only occurs for that short period when there is both chrome and bare steel in the throat simultaneously - just at the point of initial break thru.) Chrome lined barrels can continue to shoot well for thousands of rounds after the bare barrel steel at the back of the barrel (throat) has been exposed due to erosion of the chrome lining. Another criticism of chrome lining is that it can flake off later in the life of the barrel resulting in poor accuracy. Obviously, this could also cause maintenance problems if the user is depending on the chrome to ward off corrosion and thus is careless in his bore cleaning. If corrosion is allowed to occur pitting will result and that will ruin accuracy for sure.

Barrel pitting was one of the reasons I got involved in Salt Bath Nitriding. I was loosing nearly as many expensive match grade barrels to improper maintenance (causing pitting) as I was to wear out. This was under the relatively benign target shooting conditions. Obviously given the reputation of degraded accuracy, using chrome lining wasn't an option. So for the past couple of years I have been Salt Bath Nitriding all of my match barrels and haven't had a single one exhibit any pitting. During that 2 yr. period shooters have put anywhere from a few hundred rounds to thousands of rounds on said barrels. I don't know how long the coating will persist so at this point I am still evaluating it as a preservative. I don't know what will happen in another year or two when these barrels get more wear on them. Salt Bath Nitriding goes on both inside of the bore and on the outside surface. So, instead of 2 manufacturing steps you have combined them into one. Salt Bath Nitriding doesn't degrade accuracy one iota, unlike chrome lining. This was the first thing that I verified when I began using the process. I broke in a bunch of barrels and then machine rest tested them for group. I recorded and kept the targets, cleaned up the barrels, and sent them to MMi TruTec for the Isonite process. When they came back I reassembled them on the same receivers with the same torque settings, same bolt carrier assemblies, same flash suppressors, etc. Then they were retested with the same ammo lots. NO degradation in accuracy and about a 1% increase in muzzle velocity.

Chrome lined barrels seem to clean up rather easily after a range session. I found the ease of cleaning of Isonite coated barrels to be similar to chrome lined barrels. The Isonite barrels clean up the easiest of any non chrome lined barrels I have ever used. Isonite can be applied to either stainless or chrome molly but the factory needs to know what steel you are sending them because the application process varies a bit. Again, I only have about 2 yr. of cleaning experience with Salt Bath Nitrided barrels. I don't know if the ease of cleaning will continue as the barrels get more rounds on them. Generally speaking, most non coated barrels get harder to clean later in life. Although stainless has a reputation of being corrosion resistant it isn't corrosion proof (I have had plenty of them return pitted) so I coat both my C.M. and my SS barrels. The Isonite on the outside of the stainless barrels cuts reflection down so my shooters like it.

I mentioned flaking of chrome lining inside the bore. Joel Kendrick is my contact at MMi TruTec, the company in Arkansas that does my Salt Bath Nitriding (they call it Isonite). He was mentioning using the Salt Bath Nitriding inside the bore prior to chrome lining it to get a better adhesion. He is currently working with one of the military contractors (maybe F.N., but don't quote me on that) relative to this process. He has given me permission to give out his contact information so I have cc'd him in my reply to you. He can give you the specifics of any testing and evaluation that has been done relative to this process and can give you quotes, etc. should you just be interested in the Isonite by itself as I use it.

One last quick note on chrome lining. Such barrels have the reputation of changing point of impact when heated up. I have found this to be very true. It may be due to the way the different metals (chrome molly and chrome) expand inside the bore. What ever the reason, it does happen and, again, this was verified on a state of the art machine rest. Isonite doesn't exhibit this characteristic.

I am sure you are well aware of some of the things I covered. Lacking specific questions, I just sort of used a shotgun approach which ended up being fairly long. If I left anything unanswered please feel free to get back to me. I have enabled my Spam Blocker to allow your e-mails to come in with out the automated hate responses that Earth Link sends out. I am sure Joel would also be glad to clarify the technical aspects of the Salt Bath Nitriding process. So far I am very pleased with it.

Best of luck!
Carlos
 
Romulus,
Nitriding steel has been used a long time for shafts that run in pressure lubricated bearing inserts. (like crankshafts) It doesn't change the dimensions of the product but provides a surface hardness that resists wear. I would recommend nitriding without a second thought. Cryo-treatment can be used to stabilize the barrel and make it more wear resistant too. It works best on magnetic metals and is less effective on the softer stainless steels such as used in stainless barrels.
 
Last edited:
Romulus,
Nitriding steel has been used a long time for shafts that run in pressure lubricated bearing inserts. (like crankshafts) It doesn't change the dimensions of the product but provides a surface hardness that resists wear. I would recommend nitriding without a second thought. Cryo-treatment can be used to stabilize the barrel and make it more wear resistant too. It works best on magnetic metals and is less effective on the softer stainless steels such as used in stainless barrels.

And where did this info come from? Remember most nitriding is done at close to 416R annealing temp.
 
Butch,
You can find the information in the ASM International papers on nitriding. My experience with the process is from having work done on engine parts and knife and axe blades.
I have used cryotreatment on transmission shafts for a few years. I have read that treated barrels wear better after the process.
 
Butch,
You can find the information in the ASM International papers on nitriding. My experience with the process is from having work done on engine parts and knife and axe blades.
I have used cryotreatment on transmission shafts for a few years. I have read that treated barrels wear better after the process.


I understand Nitried engine parts, not rifle barrels. Yes I've read specs on temps for it. You would be better served doing a salt bath Melonite QPQ. I have had many barrels cryo'd and have seen absolutely no advantage. Very few use it any more. I "think" that a cryo barrel machines a little easier, but no difference in longevity or accuracy. I've had the opportunity to cryo a nonmachined blank, after rifling, and after chambering. It was just like any other barrel, no worse, but no better. I believe a true cryo can help certain materials in certain applications. Tried it on brake rotors. They did not last any longer, kinda like splitfire sparkplugs.
 
Barrel Nitriding a 23" 6 Dasher / 6 Creedmoor:

I am building two rifles - #1 is a 260 AI @ 27". #2 is a 23" 6 Dasher or 6 Creedmoor.

I plan on having the barrel on the 6mm Nitrided. I don't have the internet browsing time I once did. If anyone can drop a definitive link or two on the different processes I'd really appreciate it. I'd like to have my ducks in a row when I drop the second rifle's parts off at the smith.

I've seen the darker nitriding, but does anyone Titanium Nitrite coat their barrels/actions?

I know that there's a SEARCH function and have used it a plenty, here and elsewhere, but I'm very limited on time these days. Any help is greatly appreciated.

If there's any horror stories of nitriding on the performance of what will be a "tactical" rig's consistency or CBS please share those as well. I've gotten behind the cutting edge on some of this new stuff. Thanks!

Barrels aren't invincible when treated. I managed to burn 6" of throat out in a 20ppc that was QPQ treated, in 550rds none the less. After talking it over with Joel Kendrick, which said it wasn't unheard of but very odd, said that once the surface hits a certain temp and stayed there cracking would occur exponentially and throat degradation would follow very fast. Which basically translates you can kill a barrel in a dog patch. I still have them done, but understand the limitations better.

Adam
 
butchlambert since you have some experience with Cryo treating barrels ,would Cryo help a Mauser 8mm military barrel that seems to drop about 5 minutes all at once when it hits a certain barrel temp after about 7 shots and will stay there till it cools down and then returns to zero .
 
butchlambert since you have some experience with Cryo treating barrels ,would Cryo help a Mauser 8mm military barrel that seems to drop about 5 minutes all at once when it hits a certain barrel temp after about 7 shots and will stay there till it cools down and then returns to zero .

I do not think so. If you can have it stress relieved it may help.
 
I thought the cryo treatment would stress relieve it ,or does it take heat . Too bad as its a Persian Mauser with a scope and is very accurate at 600 yards but unreliable as to when it moves .I may have to have a Criterion barrel put on if they make one for a mauser or maybe a Lothar Walther since there out of Germany ,they may make a replacement .
 

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