Barrel Life -- What Is Your Experience?

[XL105]

What does barrel life me to you?
Obviously there are Many factors in how long a barrel will last. But I’m interested in hearing what that means to you, your barrel, your discipline, caliber, barrel marker, etc.
What determines Your barrel life? MOA, throat erosion, grooves wearing.
Have you set back or rechambered a barrel to get more life out of it? Have you tried a different/longer bullet, changed your COAL to extend the life? Have you put it on another rifle or sold/given to a friend?
Is it really a dead barrel, or dead for your discipline?
Maybe you never consider a barrel being bad, because it’s just for hunting or you just shoot for the fun and not keeping score?

There is no [definitive] answer here [I understand there will be different experiences with different disciplines, calibers, rates of fire etc.] I’m just curious on what your guys opinions and experiences are, and I thought this would be an interesting discussion.

Let me know your
Caliber
Barrel maker
Discipline
Number of rounds through it
What was your best barrel life, why
What was your worse, why
What determines the barrel is shot out
Any other information you want to give on this subject.

 

[jepp2]

Caliber
Barrel maker
Discipline
Number of rounds through it
What was your best barrel life, why
What was your worse, why
What determines the barrel is shot out
Any other information you want to give on this subject.

a really broad question, but I'll play
Caliber - 17 Rem to 308 Win, touching most of the bases in between
Barrel Maker - factory, Krieger, Lilja, WOA, RRA, and Bartlein for replacements
Discipline - Non competition, but I shoot big game, varmints, load development, and friendly competitions up to 600 yards
Number of rounds - Unfired to retired/replaced 20 Practical is normally just over 5,000 when I replace, most others haven't needed replacement, but they might have been any way for different twist or better barrel or caliber change. Don't rely on the bore scope to tell you anything except are you getting the barrel clean.
Best barrel life - still determining but not overheating the barrel is a good start. I might clean more often than some. Every 50 rounds in field during my pd hunt I clean the bore, and every night I remove the copper. Pick powders that are easier on the barrel when possible.
Worst - Disappointment from right after break in, never shot acceptable groups
When to replace - for the 20 Practical, it is when my groups increase in size by approximately 50%. I judge when I start missing prairie dogs at 275 yards and beyond that would have been deceased prior.

Barrels are just a replaceable part, like primers are in reloading (except they last for more shots). There have been years I have fired 12,000 centerfire rounds. Normally about 6,000 of these are during my month long prairie dog hunt. The remainder are during my 50+ trips to the range each year. For my 6CM, 6.5CM 25-06 etc. rifles, I know barrel life isn't going to be great (maybe 1000 rounds on the 25-06), so I approach load development differently to stretch their life. Having more firearms to shoot spreads out the load. During my normal prairie dog hunt, I would take 6 rifles with me, actively shooting 3 during the hunt. That way I'm normally not hitting the end of the barrel life during the hunt.

 

[MikeMcCasland]

.308 in FTR w/ N150 and 200.20x bullets.

I stop trusting my barrels around the 1500 round mark; they'll go longer for sure, but they seem to not shoot as well as they once did. If I could afford to replace them every 7-800 I would.

I shoot the piss out of them (I shoot fast, and usually 7-10 sighters every match at 1k), brush them with reckless disregard etc.

Shortest barrel life was 800 rounds (an anomaly)
Longest? Never run one seriously past 2,300 rounds.

I shoot against some good folks, and I need all the accuracy I can get. I pull them earlier than most for that reason.

I've never set back and rechambered, and I wouldn't do it on a barrel north of 500-600 rounds. I know a lot of BR guys do it though; just not my thing.

Edit: This isn't to say my way is the correct way. It's probably not. I once watched a guy with 4000 rounds on a tube shoot high-x count at 1000 in a well attended state match. Pretty funny how that works.

 

[Oleg S]

.308 in FTR w/ N150 and 200.20x bullets.

I stop trusting my barrels around the 1500 round mark; they'll go longer for sure, but they seem to not shoot as well as they once did. If I could afford to replace them every 7-800 I would.

I shoot the piss out of them (I shoot fast, and usually 7-10 sighters every match at 1k), brush them with reckless disregard etc.

Shortest barrel life was 800 rounds (an anomaly)
Longest? Never run one seriously past 2,300 rounds.

I shoot against some good folks, and I need all the accuracy I can get. I pull them earlier than most for that reason.

I've never set back and rechambered, and I wouldn't do it on a barrel north of 500-600 rounds. I know a lot of BR guys do it though; just not my thing.

Edit: This isn't to say my way is the correct way. It's probably not. I once watched a guy with 4000 rounds on a tube shoot high-x count at 1000 in a well attended state match. Pretty funny how that works.

Wow. Only 1,500 rounds for .308...
How hot is your load?

 

[MikeMcCasland]

Wow. Only 1,500 rounds for .308...
How hot is your load?

Same velocity as everybody else. 2650 +/- 20fps with a 20x. I shoot a lot of sighters, and I tend to shoot faster than most though.

If they're still shooting really well at 1500, I'll keep it screwed on; I just don't have a lot of trust in it's longevity. At the first hint of it not shooting the way I think it should, I'll pull it off.

I don't think I've ever truly "shot out" a 308 barrel; I can't imagine shooting one to 4,000-5,000 like some of the posts I've seen on here.

With componets costing as much as they do (now being as scarce as they are), and matches being as much of a drive, it's just not worth messing with a barrel where you have any doubt about it being in peak form.

Not saying its' for everyone, nor advocating anyone else do it. I get beat by guys with high round count barrels all the time.

Edit: Lastly, "controversial" or contrary opinions early on in the life of threads really make them fun.

 

[Trashy]

What does barrel life me to you?


Let me know your
Caliber
Barrel maker
Discipline
Number of rounds through it
What was your best barrel life, why
What was your worse, why
What determines the barrel is shot out
Any other information you want to give on this subject.

Well, I am the worst one to answer this topic, because I do not shoot rifles at all, but for sake of discussion, I will.

.22lr 357 magnum 45acp
Various for the .22s
Ruger gp100 for the 357
Accuracy x for the 45
Bullseye
Free pistol
General wrecking of AR and ak "chyeah bros" at local desert blm mess.
Best barrel life
Ruger single 6, probably 200k through it, but it's starting to show creaks and groans.
Worst?
Toss up between a ruger super black hawk I had and a gp100. Both had sub 2k factory rounds through them and have cracked forcing cones.
Honestly? No idea. I just really love shooting. I'd imagine if groups opened up considerably I would change barrels but for offhand handguns, typically a revolver wearing out comes first.

 

[Straightshooter1]

What does barrel life me to you?
Obviously there are Many factors in how long a barrel will last. But I’m interested in hearing what that means to you, your barrel, your discipline, caliber, barrel marker, etc.
What determines Your barrel life? MOA, throat erosion, grooves wearing.
Have you set back or rechambered a barrel to get more life out of it? Have you tried a different/longer bullet, changed your COAL to extend the life? Have you put it on another rifle or sold/given to a friend?
Is it really a dead barrel, or dead for your discipline?
Maybe you never consider a barrel being bad, because it’s just for hunting or you just shoot for the fun and not keeping score?

There is no right answer here, I’m just curious on what your guys opinions and experiences are, and I thought this would be an interesting discussion.

Let me know your
Caliber
Barrel maker
Discipline
Number of rounds through it
What was your best barrel life, why
What was your worse, why
What determines the barrel is shot out
Any other information you want to give on this subject.

Caliber: .308

Barrel maker: Krieger

Discipline: Target, non-competitive

Number of rounds through it: 5,314 and counting

What was your best barrel life, why: This current one is my best and will keep going until my groups open up

What was your worse, why: 3,647 on previous factory barrel that still had a lot of life left and simply swapped it out as I wanted a high end barrel, which was provided to me as a BD gift.

What determines the barrel is shot out: When I'm no longer getting the small groups (like larger MOA's than .3's) and/or when I can no longer produce a cartridge with a bullet and COAL that's work well in the chamber.

Any other information you want to give on this subject: Typically, I shoot moderate loads, which I characterize as being around 54,000 - 57,000 psi and "hot" loads (which I shoot very little) as being 60,000 psi and up (as calculated by the QuickLoad app). I don't shoot a lot of heavy bullets (like 185gr and up), so I feel the smaller bearing surface rounds put less wear on the barrel, though this is not a reason why I don't shoot a lot of heavies. Since my shooting is here in Arizona, I keep track of the heat of the barrel with a temperature strip mounded just forward of the receiver and stop shooting when is shows ~122°F and then I pause as I cool the barrel with a barrel cooler blowing air through the bore. In cool morning weather with ambient temps below 70°F, barrel temperature is seldom that high. I clean the barrel when 150-175 rounds have been fired, which is typically after the 3rd outing. But I don't try to removed ALL the copper fouling unless on my inspection of the bore with a bore scope shows more build up than I normally see after my normal cleaning procedure. Then I'll give it a good scrub cleaning to where where all copper and carbon is removed and I've got a nice sparkley clean bore.


Have you tried a different/longer bullet, changed your COAL to extend the life?
Not yet, though I will consider it and look to see of a longer bullet would give me as good results as I've been getting with the shorter bullets.

Have you put it on another rifle or sold/given to a friend?
I did sell the previous barrel to someone who was actually looking for a used one at a good price. I had not interest in keeping it around. With the number of rounds through my current barrel, I've already purchased a replacement and will make the swap when it starts to not shoot well. And this time, I'll be keeping the old barrel to use for fireforming new brass.

Is it really a dead barrel, or dead for your discipline?
In my case, the barrel is dead for my discipline and not particularly good for use in hunting on a gun like a hunting gun as the gun would be kinda heavy. Though for some hunters, I suppose that wouldn't be much of a issue. But as I mentioned, the old barrel can still serve a purpose, other than a plant stake.

 

[K22]

I'm strictly a performance based shooter meaning as long as the rifle can consistently hit the vital area at the distances I shoot then the barrel is still good - regardless what it looks like inside, regardless how many rounds I have through it although I keep an exact round count on each rifle.

My discipline is precision varmint and predator hunting and big game hunting. The former requiring a high level of precision, the latter not so much. Translation: barrel wear become more of an issue for varmint hunting than big game hunting.

I have a variety of rifles from stock factory to custom.

Since I'm primarily a hunter, the cold barrel shot is the most important to me. While I spend a lot of time at the range practicing, I never shoot out of a warm or hot barrel. I allow the barrel to cool before taking the next shot. This probably more than anything I've done has extended the life of my barrels since it is well know that excessive heat is one of the major factors contributing to premature barrel wear. Of course a warm barrel shot is sometimes necessary while hunting but this is the exception rather than the rule.

I also clean after every 30 to 40 rounds. But I'm not sure about the effect of cleaning on barrel life. I would think, if done without harming the bore, cleaning regularly should be good, right? But this is a topic, i.e. cleaning that gives me a headache. You would think by now that a standard method would be established but just do a search on the net and look at the videos and you'll see radically different ideas on the subject. I have no idea what is the best method except for some obvious steps to avoid damaging the bore like using a rod guide, a single piece rod, etc. My head is hurting so I'll move on.

I shoot only my own reloads which are not loaded to max powder charges. I shoot standard cartridges, i.e. the 223 Rem, 22 350, 243 and 308. The 243 gets a bad rap on barrel wear but I have an Rem 700 with over 3,000 rounds that still holds a consistent five shot group a little over 1 moa, more than enough for deer hunting. I did burn out a 22 250 barrel at about 2,500 rounds, burn out being defined as the rifle would no longer hold a 1/2 to 5/8" moa which is my standard for a long range varmint rifle.

I don't believe in obsessing over barrel life. Rifles are meant to be shot and used. Replacing barrel is a normal requirement for those who shoot a lot. If you don't abuse the barrel, most last a long time.

I think it's helpful to establish your own standard for precision then evaluate the barrel's remaining useful life accordingly.

 

[DirtySteve]

I shoot F-tr with a 308 175 gr VLD 2650.. I replaced the barrel at 9000+ rounds because I felt it was going to go south and did not want it to crap out during a match. I shoot slow. Barrel never got hot. Still shot under 1/2 moa when I had it rebarreld.

Now about cutting a barrel back. Why? It cost the same to have it chambered and fit as a new one. You only save the cost of the barrel by setting it back.

 

[Tempest]

Same velocity as everybody else. 2650 +/- 20fps with a 20x. I shoot a lot of sighters, and I tend to shoot faster than most though.

If they're still shooting really well at 1500, I'll keep it screwed on; I just don't have a lot of trust in it's longevity. At the first hint of it not shooting the way I think it should, I'll pull it off.

I don't think I've ever truly "shot out" a 308 barrel; I can't imagine shooting one to 4,000-5,000 like some of the posts I've seen on here.

With componets costing as much as they do (now being as scarce as they are), and matches being as much of a drive, it's just not worth messing with a barrel where you have any doubt about it being in peak form.

Not saying its' for everyone, nor advocating anyone else do it. I get beat by guys with high round count barrels all the time.

Edit: Lastly, "controversial" or contrary opinions early on in the life of threads really make them fun.

Think I'm at that point. Similar combo.

FTR gun. 600 and 1K matches. Benchmark 32". 200.20X @ 2,650 +/- on temp. Rifle shot killer when 1st put it together and for the next 3 seasons up until 2,500 rounds. Then velocity started to slow and X count dropped. I've got 2,700 on it and think it's time for a change. Going to try one more 1K match with a new load hoping I can get another year out of it.

 

[Sandstorm]

1960 rounds on a 284 Shehane and it went south 3rd string @ 1000 yds ....
I was going to twist a new one on before the Match and said to myself ...hell It will go one more...wrong.lol

 

[jelenko]

I have to admit I was wondering the same.

 

[JEFFPPC]

Same velocity as everybody else. 2650 +/- 20fps with a 20x. I shoot a lot of sighters, and I tend to shoot faster than most though.

If they're still shooting really well at 1500, I'll keep it screwed on; I just don't have a lot of trust in it's longevity. At the first hint of it not shooting the way I think it should, I'll pull it off.

I don't think I've ever truly "shot out" a 308 barrel; I can't imagine shooting one to 4,000-5,000 like some of the posts I've seen on here.

With componets costing as much as they do (now being as scarce as they are), and matches being as much of a drive, it's just not worth messing with a barrel where you have any doubt about it being in peak form.

Not saying its' for everyone, nor advocating anyone else do it. I get beat by guys with high round count barrels all the time.

Edit: Lastly, "controversial" or contrary opinions early on in the life of threads really make them fun.

So for the OP my experience for 25 years and quite few barrels.....in the 6PPC 2000 to 2500 rds. I will add that I shoot score. It is not the same as shooting group and I feel has a different requirement to remain competitive. After about 1500 rds I use the tuner to keep it sharp. With the 6 BRX's usually 2000 to 2200. Again at about 1500 using the tuner to stay sharp I expect to shoot 3 shot groups in the 1's or less and to repeat back to back. I have the best results with Bartline and Kriger in the BRX. With the PPC Kriger and early on Shilen.

 

[shoot4fun]

I think many shooters over-analyze barrel life. We want to blame the barrel for our bad day or our poor reloading abilities or any other numerous reasons we are actually not shooting as well as we had dreamed we could.

I have had barrels set back but only because they were damn good barrels, producing great results on a consistent basis. Sometimes it does work satisfactorily and others not so much. So, is it worth it? Not if you pay someone an honest amount to have it done.
Many times I've seen a "worn out" barrel respond very well to a deep clean or even just a small tuning adjustment on the load it has liked.
To me, worn out barrels are the ones with 3-4" of rifling missing or chunks out of them.

 

[357Mag]

XL -

Howdy !

.224" cal
Hart 24" 1-14 5-groove
Groundhogs and occasional group or score shoot
3,425 bullets through it
3,425 bullets thought it = best barrel life - see below
3,425 bullets through it = worst barrel life - see below
Barrel started to " keyhole " some shots

I was shooting the barrel chambered in my ".22-35 Remington" wildcat. It was my dedicated groundhog gun.
Made some mistakes w/ the barrel, that I am convinced reduced the round count I would fire before keyholing showed up:

- I was new to custom accuracy rifles and stainless barrels. I used an uncoated steel cleaning rod for the first couple years. The stock had high comb target stock , that forced me to clean w/ a bow in the rod.
This placed undue wear on the bottom lands at the breech end of the barrel. I cleaned the barrel way too often.

Worse though, was my decision to have the barrel cryo'd when it was more than 1/2 way through its ultimate life. Bore scoping after the cryo revealed that chunks of the leade' had fallen out, much akin the chunks of dried mud seen at the bottom of a dried-up mud puddle. This was a fairly big deal,a I shot Hornady 55SX bullets, and they have a .009" thick jacket. Upon reflection, I DK just exactly what good I thought the late-in-life cryo was going to accomplish ?!

I got nothing against cry, just don't do it late.

Give the cleaning rod a straight shot into the breech. Use a coated rod

Other:
I shot WW760 and H414 pretty much exclusively. These are " ball " powder, which has sometimes been maligned for being harsh on barrels. I saw none of that. Had I used a coated rod that entered straight in and also had skipped the cryo, I have every confidence my barrel could have gone 4,000rnds... or more.
I didn't " machine gun " @ matches, and never had to do rapid fire w/ my single shot bolt rifle; when shooting groundhogs. And, I never really " chased the lands " w/ that barrel. Once the keyholing showed up and the barrel leade had chunked out some; I re-barrelled / re-chambered.

RECOMMENDATION:
Whatever the calibre/cartridge/bullet/barrel choices, shoot a ( factory or wildcat ) cartridge that has the powder combustion " turbulence point " located within the case' neck.


With regards,
357Mag

 

[XL105]

To everyone else who has decided Not to derail this thread and answer my question, I thank you.

Keep them coming. So far very interesting to hear your experiences

 

[JEFFPPC]

Shoot 4fun, I certainly agree with you that barrels, and I will add scopes, often get blamed when shooters error is the problem. It's the society we live in, always someone or somethings fault, not our own.I have had some good shooting barrels that were starting to look ugly that I replaced to start a season just So I would not get caught in mid season. Last few years I have stopped doing that. My criteria now is strictly based on, Am I competitive.

 

[bobm]

I have been shooting HP rifle metallic silhouette for 35 years. For the last 30 years I have only been using the 7mm-08 cartridge. In that 30 years I have fired exactly 68,835 rounds of 7-08. Yeah, I keep really good records. Do the math on loading components consumed.

I develop an accurate load and use it for the life of the barrel with no adjustments made for throat wear. My accuracy requirements are based on hitting big targets standing offhand. I consider my barrels done when they will no longer shoot bench rested groups under 4 inches at 500 meters.

My experience has been that chrome moly barrels are done at 4500 shots. I have had several stainless barrels both factory and custom reach 6200 shots before being declared finished.

I think this is a good thread topic and deserves more responses.

 

[INTJ]

Caliber: 6BRA, 300 WSM

Barrel maker: Any, but usually Krieger or Bartlein

Discipline: Long Range BR

I share the opinion that a barrel's best accuracy starts to wane around 800-900 rounds. That doesn't mean it still won't be competitive, and in average conditions you'd never know, but it's best days are over.

I lose confidence in a barrel when it won't shoot small in good conditions, when it doesn't shoot similar groups as the top shooters in my relays, or when it erodes the throat a lot.

I usually plan for a 1200 round barrel life, but I never seem to keep them on for that long. Since I have my own lathe it's no big deal to chamber a new barrel.

My current barrel is a good example. It is a good barrel, but not a great one. In good conditions at 600 yds it has agged in the high ones in LG and in the high 2s in HG. At 1000 it has agged in the 4s in LG and in the 5s in HG.

While that is decent, it's not good enough to keep running this barrel. I am told that one way to bring a barrel back to top form is to recut the throat. Because this barrel is a heavy throat eroder--it hit 022" in 700 rounds and keeps moving, recutting the throat would leave it too long. So the only way to get more top accuracy life out of this barrel is to rechamber it in 6 Dasher or 6 Creed. I could also just keep this barrel for when conditions are poor, or use it as a fireforming barrel since it has a nice, tight chamber.

So since this barrel has 860ish rounds through it, it erodes the throat a lot, it's a good but not great barrel, and I have a new barreled chambered and ready to go; it's time to change

 

[XL105]

The Reason for me starting this thread...
It is simply a curiosity to wanting to know what guys consider the end of a barrels life. As you can see from the responses there is such a wide range of reasons why the shooter believes his barrel is dead. They base this on history of cartridge they are shooting, their disciplines, and to your contention having a bad day and on and on.
I find it fascinating the differences in opinions/data the shooter defines as a dead barrel. I will say again, there is No wrong answer, but there are answers to my question, and as expected they Vary Widely.