barrel hardness discussion

[Borisserge]

I was wondering if barrel hardness influences accuracy (assuming all other things equal of manufacturing)?

Some of the soft stainless steel have given great accuracy, but poor barrel life.
Lothar Walther is hard by quite a few other manufacturers and give good barrel life.

Thoughts or experience of 826M40 steel?

 

[DaveTooley]

Nothing is free. Many of us have worked with lothar barrels and for the custom rifle world they are just to difficult to work with.

 

[Terry]

Thanks Dave!

 

[Ackman]

Pretty difficult to tell how hard a barrel is. Machined/chambered precisely it'll shoot well. Concerning Lothar Walther, I've found them to be just excellent. The fellow you talk with there rubs some people the wrong way and there've been negative comments. Some people really dislike him. But we've spoken several times and I've always learned something. He explained that It's not that Walther stainless is so extremely hard, but that it's tough. Makes it more resistant to the firecracking that occurs with repeated heat/expansion and contraction. My Walther 22-250AI is probably the best barrel I own. As accurate as any of the big name barrels I have and even after 100rds on prairie dogs, doesn't foul or copper, cleans very easily. After 1500 rds of 4100fps loads the throat had grown about .005". Some claim it's difficult to work with. The builder (now retired) who did the gun worked in an aerospace shop with all kinds of exotic materials to very exacting tolerances. Said he had no problem machining the Walther steel. I've also a Wessinger custom 17AH and Ruger 77/22M (rimfire barrels are regular 416 stainless) that were done using Walther barrels....they shoot very well. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one.

 

[davidjoe]

Nothing is free. Many of us have worked with lothar barrels and for the custom rifle world they are just to difficult to work with.

Dave, I don’t think there is a more intriguing reply you could have given. The last time I was told barrel steel was harder than typical, those two barrels were the best combination of accuracy and longevity I can remember.

You sold a couple of WL barrels today to try out, if they ever process their “inquiries” since they won’t accept internet orders.

 

[B23]

Isn't or wasn't Bartlein barrels working on a harder SS material/formula to help increase throat life?

Where's Frank G when you need him.

 

[okie]

Isn't or wasn't Bartlein barrels working on a harder SS material/formula to help increase throat life?

Where's Frank G when you need him.

yeah ,I read this on here--maybe they bought a whole batch of it to try???---cant really remember

 

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[davidjoe]

Isn't or wasn't Bartlein barrels working on a harder SS material/formula to help increase throat life?

Where's Frank G when you need him.

Frank’s regular stainless 5R barrel shot me this three shot group at 600 yards this week from a .284. Yes, they are the ones offering harder steel, too.

 

[rwj]

Tribology is a complex subject. Hardness is not always a reliable wear predictor. I have a lot of direct experience in an application where nylon sliding on hardened steel (RkC 62) resulted in the steel being severely worn with little wear being observed on the plastic!

 

[okie]

Tribology is a complex subject. Hardness is not always a reliable wear predictor. I have a lot of direct experience in an application where nylon sliding on hardened steel (RkC 62) resulted in the steel being severely worn with little wear being observed on the plastic!

yeah---thats why the patches at feedmills are plastic where grain wears through the metal

 

[B23]

Frank’s regular stainless 5R barrel shot me this three shot group at 600 yards this week from a .284. Yes, they are the ones offering harder steel, too.

I've always been a Hart and Krieger barrel guy but I see a Bartlein, good chance it'll be a 5R, barrel in my future and largely because I appreciate Frank's willingness to always be involved in many different barrel conversations on this forum as well as others.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

It does seem like the better shooting barrels move throats and wear a little faster in general.

 

[Borisserge]

Just to add, I've owned Border barrel (very soft, very accurate), LW, bartlein, Krieger, to name just a few. The last listing is closer to artillery steel than LW.

They've all cleaned very well, and held very little fouling.
I was thinking, as cartridges go over bore, and with plenty good powders to match, would 826M40 steel be just as accurate, given its toughness, and hardness?

 

[B23]

It does seem like the better shooting barrels move throats and wear a little faster in general.

And that's something I'd want to know a lot more about and see a good amount of data on before I took the plunge in one of these "harder" barrels because, generally speaking, most things in life are about trade offs and if longevity comes at the expense of accuracy then I'll have to pass. I don't shoot competition nor am I any kind of professional shooter so I'm ok with a little wear and chasing the lands but even if I were I still don't imagine I'd want to trade any amount of accuracy for longevity.