barrel groove pics

[urbanrifleman]

After receiving my bore scope and beginning to test barrel cleaners, nothing has come close to Flitz. And it still took ten times more work than I would have thought.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Here are before and after. 223a barrel rock creek. About 1000 rounds of carbon build up. The barrel had lost about half its accuracy and went from about 1/4 minute to closer to 3/4 moa. Took about 250 strokes with Butchs patches and Flitz. The barrel returned to shooting like it did when it was new.

Now the chamber end looks like the muzzle end. The muzzle end looked like new with very basic cleaning.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Pardon my pictures but it basically looked like brand new again.

 

[fyrewall]

Flitz sure gets the carboom and other fouling out - a non-abrasive - abrasive? (it says "Non-Abrasive" on the container) MSDS says Flitz contains Cristobalite, a quartz like mineral with a MOH of 6-7. Sure feels gritty to me. Applications after every 200 rounds.

For a complete Flitz clean job, I use moderate amounts of unspecified high detergent oil, Flitz applied on nylon brushes, (clean brushes with Isopropyl Alcohol to finish job) , and numerous patches. Lots of black goo.

Always appreciative of photo's -- thanks.

 

[Pawnee Bill]

After receiving my bore scope and beginning to test barrel cleaners, nothing has come close to Flitz. And it still took ten times more work than I would have thought.

I too have tried most of the common bore cleaners and to get all the carbon & copper out I have to use Flitz also. You must have a bore scope to see if your barrel is clean. I have followed directions until the patches come out clean and then borescoped it and the barrel still had carbon/copper in it.

 

[FrankG]

The bottom of the throat/chamber area will wear more usually. All of the loose dirt etc...lays in the bottom of the barrel and the throat ends up taking the bulk of the beating the worse. Not just from cleaning but from shooting as well.

Be careful using bore paste. You can get carried away with it and cause fouling issues. Also using an abrasive cleaner and in conjunction with a brush that is guaranteed damage to the bore of the barrel.

The attached picture is from a .284win. F Class barrel. Shooter used KG2 bore paste and a brush. At 100 rounds the barrel started having accuracy problems. The picture is of the barrel at 800 rounds. He physically polished +.002" out of the bore (tops of the lands) and +.0015" out of the grooves. The gouges are from the brush going up and over the tops of the lands and trying to rotate with the twist of the rifling.

I've seen barrels where shooters have used Witch's Brew etc...doing the same thing. Last year had two different shooters one a .308win. that they polished a .001" out of the bore of the barrel in 500 rounds only and a 6mm or 6.5mm in 110 rounds the shooter polished a .0005" out of the barrel and the gouges on the lands where already starting to show.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

 

[urbanrifleman]

By my tests JB paste does almost nothing by comparison compared to Flitz. It just works way better.

 

[urbanrifleman]

My buddy came up with a brilliant test to test carbon cleaners. He took aluminum cans and burned carbon to the bottom with a torch and then tested all these products to see what dissolves the carbon.

It came out the opposite of what he thought.

 

[divingin]

My buddy came up with a brilliant test to test carbon cleaners. He took aluminum cans and burned carbon to the bottom with a torch and then tested all these products to see what dissolves the carbon.

It came out the opposite of what he thought.

Doesn't that just cause soot to form on the bottom? Any temp that would "bake" the carbon on would melt the aluminum, wouldn't it?

Details on exactly what he found would be appreciated.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Ed Red for the win. Hoppes was second. Most of the others didn't do anything much at all. Kroll for example. Sea Foam did nothing.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I am pretty sure hard carbon on alumimum cooking pans is a real thing. It is not hard to create a hard carbon deposit. Just fry some grease on a pan at high heat. It is not soot. There will be soot but hard carbon underneath. People season their cooking pans with carbon on purpose.

 

[rardoin]

I'll be sure to avoid Ed's Red on my cast iron skillets.........

 

[urbanrifleman]

I'll be sure to avoid Ed's Red on my cast iron skillets.........

From initial tests, nothing else is even close. The Ed's Red turned baked on carbon into goo.

 

[mauser284]

I would Flitz it and do a set-back and maybe re-profile and use it for a hunting rifle or varmint rifle. Sell it cheaply as such and let someone else give it a new life! Before I had kids and left the hobby for a while I would do that. I always got a great shooting hunting rifle that way. My friends and family used to use my worn out barrels for the same!

 

[fyrewall]

My guess is the pig fat carbon would be burned or oxidized away before the propane torch melted the aluminum pan (1,221 deg. F melts AL, propane torch 2,000F minimum). Carbon does not react with water, acids, and other compounds. Various bore cleaners would be those other compounds. The chemicals in the bore cleaners would react with metal fouling like copper, lead, tin and whatever.

The big caution was Frank's info about abrasives on brushes. No more of that for me! Don't go against good facts like that photo. My guess is existing gouges were enlarged by repeated abrasive action by brush bristles loaded with abrasive dragging over rifle lands. Most bore abrasives have MOH values harder than steel. Flitz contains Cristobalite, a form of quartz, MOH 6-7, hard stuff.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Anybody thats been around outboard motors for long knows what nylon fishing line does to a hardened prop shaft. Imagine what nylon does to soft stainless then throw an abrasive in the mix. Franks picture tells the tale. No nylon brushes!!!

 

[urbanrifleman]

Been using Butch's patches with the Flitz. I think it works great. It has no aggressiveness to the steel. Flitz on a patch.

Brass brush does seem to work great with Ed's Red and Hoppes.

Nylon brushes. Never used them never want too.

 

[rardoin]

I have to say that it took a bit of talent with a nylon brush to produce the wear pattern that Frank displayed. I dare say that with a proper bore guide, proper fitting nylon brush, a quality bearing handled cleaning rod and a bit of common sense that damage to the bore by cleaning with a mild abrasive such as Iosso would be produced. I use Bartlein barrels almost exclusively and clean aggressively with a bronze brush every 70-160 shots and give it a good scrub with Iosso on a nylon brush. I use the equipment I described and I have not had any issues with fall-off of precision or unusual wear patterns in the grooves/on the lands (per a Hawkeye scope). My barrels last the expected intervals for the caliber/bullet/velocity. You can't be hamfisted in your cleaning technique and run a non-bearing poor fitting rod with no bore guide, a bronze brush and valve grinding compound in your barrel and not expect disaster but with a little care you can get a barrel very clean with little time involved. I think the barrel Frank showed was cleaned with total lack of understanding of proper 'care and feeding'.

I have bronze and nylon brushes....and I am not afraid to use them so stand back.

Robin

 

[urbanrifleman]

I have to agree. That picture and the story of whoever that was that ruin that Barrel that took some serious talent to do that considering what I've been testing. Must have gone out of his way to do something stupid to remove that much metal. And sometimes I wonder if he's anecdotal stories don't end up becoming the rule and obviously this is some kind of a Darwin Award winner here

 

[ricco1949]

Flitz........I'm a believer.!!!!

Have a 6.5 SAUM barrel that I recently setback cutting off the tenon and rechambering .100 short with a .100 short reamer. Nesika K in a 35# heavy gun .

The barrel had not been fired since 2011 and had 850 rounds on it......at the end of it's life but worth a try for another few hundred rounds. I had previously used JB during each cleaning session but did not have a bore scope then to examine the results .

The barrel now breathed fliers like a dragon.....free recoil. Chaotic load development, with flags at dusk, zero wind .......group in the 1's or 2's followed by one with fliers in 3's to 5's.

Decided to look at the bore after reading this post since I now have a Hawkeye. Yup carbon layer on first half......alligator skin type.

Let it sit overnite in Wipe Out And then began working on it . After threes hours of various cleaners and abrasives these are my findings .

1. Scrub with Butches and bronze brush several times. Little results.

2. Soak in Carbon Killer followed by scrub with bronze brush. Repeat several times . Little results.

3. Soak in CLR followed by scrub with Montana Copper Killer (I ran out of Butches). Repeat several times. Little results.

4. Short stroke JB on tight patch followed by Copper Killer and bronze brush . Repeat several times. Little results .

5. Short stroke Flitz on a tight patch followed by Copper Killer and bronze brush. IMMEDIATE results. The barrel felt smoother while cleaning out the Flitz and the brush started to squeak like new. I would guess 80%_90% of the carbon was gone .I repeated the Flitz application 3 more times. 100% of carbon now gone....or at least I can't see any .

Now if it shoots again......