Barrel De-resonators... Thoughts?

[Macropod]

Barrel De-resonators.

Anyone using these gadgets? Do they work well?

While no substitute for load development, are they a useful addition?

 

[Grimstod]

I have never seen one win any competitions.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

I suppose they give a similar effect to a tuner brake. Just changing barrel harmonics. Though I would opt for the tuner brake because they are easier to adjust and have the added advantage of reduced recoil. Just my opinion.

 

[jonbearman]

I got one and tried it to prove to a friend it was smoke and mirrors and that is just what they are , pure garbage.

 

[Joe Salt]

Well guys I hate to disagree but I have them on one of my H.G.'s And have won a lot of scopes, Money and some wood! I have them the full length of the barrel, and the first thing I notice was when I first installed the I gained 3 moa at a 1000 yards. I've had them on for like 6 or 7 years. So yes they work like a tuner. I tried taking one or two off, but it seems to likes them all better. At the time the rifle was shooting alright but me being the one that loves trying different things, I think anything is worth trying once. Oh its on my 308 Baer!

Joe Salt

 

[savagedasher]

Well guys I hate to disagree but I have them on one of my H.G.'s And have won a lot of scopes, Money and some wood! I have them the full length of the barrel, and the first thing I notice was when I first installed the I gained 3 moa at a 1000 yards. I've had them on for like 6 or 7 years. So yes they work like a tuner. I tried taking one or two off, but it seems to likes them all better. At the time the rifle was shooting alright but me being the one that loves trying different things, I think anything is worth trying once. Oh its on my 308 Baer!

Joe Salt

I agree with Joe. They do help. Larry

 

[dickn52]

They work on rimfire only I was told by Harrells. There is differing opinions on whether they help centerfires at all though.

 

[jonbearman]

How many do you have on the HG Joe?

 

[Joe Salt]

Dick52 I'm not here to lie to you, I help run a Shooting School at the PA.1000 yard club. Does Harrells make them? NO I've been playing with them for quite a while now, Like I told Sims Vibrations when I got them, Has anybody thought to put them the whole length of the barrel. the answer was no. So when I tested them I told them it worked on my rifle, I seen results. But when I tried them on my wife's rifle they only made a good mirage shied. But you have to understand that her H.G.Won the overall that year I think 2009. So try tuners as you may but you are not going to make a good barrel shoot that much better.
Jonbearman to answer your question all I could get on the barrel was 11 of them because of the block! And they are the Magnum size, they make smaller one for sporting rifles also.
Ledd slinger If you would have used a little KY when you put it on would have left a rust mark. :'(

Joe Salt

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Thanks joe. I'll keep the KY in mind if I ever try one again.

 

[fgregorio]

Hi,
I tried them before and turned to something similar. Instead of using the limbsaver deresonator, I got better results with the following procedure:
Hang the rifle from the buttplate. In a quiet environment, tap the barrel with your index finger along its length, and listen to the tappping noise with your ear close to the barrel, although not touching it.
What you are looking for is for a spot that makes a dull noise about 6 inches from the muzzle.
Mark the spot with a texter.
Next, keep tapping towards the chamber end and look for the spot where the noise is the loudest. Mark with a texter.
Keep on tapping back to the chamber end looking for another dull noise point. Mark with a texter.
Then I use a product called megasorber which are adhesive sheets of a very efficient polymer that converts vibration into heat. On the other side of the adhesive sheet, you have a layer of aluminium foil which acts as an heat sink to dissipate said heat.
http://www.megasorber.com/soundproofing-products/vibration-dampeners/constrained-layer-damping-sheet.html
I cut a 4 inch long section of that sheet and stick it with its mid section on the spot on the barrel that you marked as the one with the loudest vibration in a way as to surround completely the circumference of the barrel.
This will really subside the travelling wave mentioned on http://www.the-long-family.com/OBT_paper.htm.
I felt a good improvement in accuracy on about 20 out of20 of my target rifles that I did this procedure to.
The point which makes the loudest tapping noise is the one where the amplitude of that travelling wave is the highest allowing the damping to work at its best.
That frequency that you are trying to dampen is shaped like a donut that travels down the barrel at about 20 000 fps, disturbing the bullet according to the obt article 8 times on a 24 inch barrel. If you manage to dampen 40% of that vibration at each pass, the projectile will only meet that donut once and at 20% of the amplitude.
Really worked for me.

 

[fgregorio]

BTW, I did use a limbsaver deresonator for a year and it worked for me, but I felt that, after doing my physics and maths calculations ( my specialty) that the system could be improved on.

 

[RDavies]

Hi,
I tried them before and turned to something similar. Instead of using the limbsaver deresonator, I got better results with the following procedure:
Hang the rifle from the buttplate. In a quiet environment, tap the barrel with your index finger along its length, and listen to the tappping noise with your ear close to the barrel, although not touching it.
What you are looking for is for a spot that makes a dull noise about 6 inches from the muzzle.
Mark the spot with a texter.
Next, keep tapping towards the chamber end and look for the spot where the noise is the loudest. Mark with a texter.
Keep on tapping back to the chamber end looking for another dull noise point. Mark with a texter.
Then I use a product called megasorber which are adhesive sheets of a very efficient polymer that converts vibration into heat. On the other side of the adhesive sheet, you have a layer of aluminium foil which acts as an heat sink to dissipate said heat.
http://www.megasorber.com/soundproofing-products/vibration-dampeners/constrained-layer-damping-sheet.html
I cut a 4 inch long section of that sheet and stick it with its mid section on the spot on the barrel that you marked as the one with the loudest vibration in a way as to surround completely the circumference of the barrel.
This will really subside the travelling wave mentioned on http://www.the-long-family.com/OBT_paper.htm.
I felt a good improvement in accuracy on about 20 out of20 of my target rifles that I did this procedure to.
The point which makes the loudest tapping noise is the one where the amplitude of that travelling wave is the highest allowing the damping to work at its best.
That frequency that you are trying to dampen is shaped like a donut that travels down the barrel at about 20 000 fps, disturbing the bullet according to the obt article 8 times on a 24 inch barrel. If you manage to dampen 40% of that vibration at each pass, the projectile will only meet that donut once and at 20% of the amplitude.
Really worked for me.

Fernando, I knew you were so much more than just a pretty face. I wouldn't mind getting together sometime and discussing this vibration damping material. I think my new heavy gun barrel might be too thick to work with a tuner, but I wonder if your tape might be of any benefit? You should be an F Open shooter with all this tech talk. Rod D

 

[RDavies]

Dick52 I'm not here to lie to you, I help run a Shooting School at the PA.1000 yard club. Does Harrells make them? NO I've been playing with them for quite a while now, Like I told Sims Vibrations when I got them, Has anybody thought to put them the whole length of the barrel. the answer was no. So when I tested them I told them it worked on my rifle, I seen results. But when I tried them on my wife's rifle they only made a good mirage shied. But you have to understand that her H.G.Won the overall that year I think 2009. So try tuners as you may but you are not going to make a good barrel shoot that much better.
Jonbearman to answer your question all I could get on the barrel was 11 of them because of the block! And they are the Magnum size, they make smaller one for sporting rifles also.
Ledd slinger If you would have used a little KY when you put it on would have left a rust mark. :'(

Joe Salt

Joe, just wondering what size barrel your HG has? Mine will be 1.45" diameter

 

[Joe Salt]

RDavies same size Barrel, There tuff to get on just use a little oil!

Joe Salt

 

[Eddie Harren]

Just goes to show, even the self proclaimed experts are, on occasion, dead wrong!

I seriously doubt if that fact will deter them from offering their advice in the future.

 

[BoydAllen]

Back when the Deresonators were first introduced, they only came with a 5/8" ID for sporter barrels. Being somewhat interested in trying one on my 6PPC, I called them and suggested that they make one that had a bigger hole, for heavier barrels. I was writing benchrest equipment articles at the time, for Shooters News, which had the contract to publish the NBRSA's match results. That was when they started making the one that we use for heavier barrels. They sent me two of the first ones to play with. About that time, Jackie Schmidt, who had done a lot of posting about his tuner experiences on the internet gave me one of his tuners, which at the time did not have any rubber on them and were lighter than the ones that he currently uses. They were three and a fraction ounces. The week before a benchrest match at Visalia, a friend fitted the tuner to a barrel that I had been shooting that was about worn out, and cut steps in the barrel, per my directions, to remove the weight needed to compensate for the added weight of the tuner and Deresonator. I installed the barrel, and went to the range with tuner and Deresonator in hand to do some testing. What I found, after testing with and without, in various configurations, was that my barrel "liked" to have the deresonator two inches back of the muzzle, a the edge of the tuner threads, and the tuner about two turns forward from that. With that combination the barrel shot better than it ever had before, and won the last match at 200 on Sunday with a .295. It had required less fiddling with the load, and shots seemed to be more consistent with what the wind flags had shown, throughout the weekend. After that, if I had had a lathe, I would have cut threads on all of my barrels, and turned steps in them as well. The difference was that dramatic.

Friends have tried Deresonators on their varmint rifles. Some have seen improvement and others have not. My theory is that this is because some may not need what they do. One thing is for sure, if you compare barrel ring with and without, there is a major difference. It goes from a ting to a thud.

IMO the main reasons that more shooters do not use Deresenators are that they are ugly, uncommon, and cheap. No matter what they say, most shooters do not want to look like they are eccentric, and there are lots of people who favor looks to the extent that they would not use something that made their rig look ugly, and of course there are a lot of people who would never believe that something that cheap could possibly work. The last reason is that they know someone who tried one, on one rifle, who did not see any improvement.

The information about the sheet material, further up in this thread is priceless, as is Joe Salt's informaton. Thanks

Boyd

 

[Joe Salt]

Boyd like you said they look ugly and everyone notices them. But I'll take that UGLY thing that shoots over pretty that doesn't shoot any day!
The other thing I'd like to say to you guys is all my testing is at 1000 yards where I'm going to see a big difference that you won't see up close.

joe Salt