Barrel Cool Review

[Ned Ludd]

jfseaman - you keep going on and on about a series of events about which you apparently know very little, regardless of the fact that they've been spelled out very clearly here. I can only speak for myself, but I neither "threatened" nor "attacked" anyone. I initially pointed out the similarity between the two devices and asked what the actual difference was. After being informed they were "totally different" because of a different type of batteries and slightly different motor speed, I expressed my opinion that in fact they were not really different at all, and that in my opinion there were also likely to be patent infringement issues. After a couple back-and-forths, the thread was removed.

The removal of the posts, combined with the fact that a BarrelCool was requested for the purpose of "reviewing it", only to make some very minor changes and then try to market it in direct competition with the BarrelCool seems pretty suspicious to me. Your assertion that this is some kind of an attempt to squash innovation is ridiculous. Innovation is more than simply changing the type of battery in a device, or using a motor with a slightly faster speed. Perhaps instead of going on and on about something about which you have little knowledge, you should try investing significant amounts of your own time and effort to develop an innovative product, and then successfully market it. When someone request a free sample to "review it", but then makes a few changes and tries to market your device as their own, I rather suspect you will have a much different view on the entire matter. In any event, your opinion and mine are both equally meaningless as I'm sure the patent lawyers will ultimately decide whether there has or has not been patent infringement.

 

[BenPerfected]

I wish you well on Barrel Cools defense of it's Patent. Based on the $ involved, it appears the likely winners will be the attorneys.

 

[ngb1787]

My 2 cents, there are some of us that use barrel cool. Happy with the results. We live in the desert, results are thumbs up!

 

[Willow]

Personally I think the insults are not warranted, particularly on this forum. If people are going to have lawyers involved then I would suggest it's more appropriate to do it behind closed doors and not air dirty laundry on here.

 

[Alexander-M]

Fully agree that these types of disagreements should be resolved elsewhere.

Regarding patents. I can tell you based on a lot of experience that it is extremely difficult to come up with an idea that has not been patented in some way; even if apparently not related. And once you do come up with a patentable idea, it is just as difficult, or more so, and very expensive to write the required documentation such that the patent examiners will not reject it based on a myriad of unexpected, minute details.

My 2¢.

Alex

 

[r1200mike]

jfseman

You've been here since 2012...When I see "site Contributor" next to your name, then its a fact..till then, my assessment stands.. I don't know Bryan personally, just use his product. If Bryan threatened the guy in public, I missed that fact...I'd assume it was more of his protecting his patent/ideal..I'm sure he did not threaten the guy with harm. I tend to side with Bryan on this matter because I've been in his shoe's..spend years and thousands of dollars to develop a unique ideal and product, bring it to market, then watch as someone who is incapable of an ideal of their own make a 10% change to it and sell it as theirs..I've seen it hundreds of times, and like you, I will NEVER support a man or company that does such.

I know the feeling. I have had no less than 3 things that I designed stolen/copied.

 

[bsumoba]

Here are some of the benefits of Barrelcool. Data is on the website on its cooling performance: http://barrelcool.com/index.php/about-us-2/

We are proud to say we have sold over 2,300 units and thank everyone who has supported BarrelCool. We are also proud that BarrelCool is manufactured in the USA and made every attempt to keep as much of the components manufactured by US based companies, such as the injection molded plastics and tubes. If we could not source components in the USA, we made use of our US based distributors to ensure as much of this product is supported in some way by US based companies.


* FITS IN BOTH AR AND BOLT ACTION RIFLE PLATFORMS

* COOL BARRELS AND SUPPRESSORS IN HALF THE TIME

* USE BARRELCOOL DURING CEASE FIRES

* PROVEN IN F CLASS AND TACTICAL MATCHES

* SHORTEN LOAD DEVELOPMENT TIME AT THE RANGE

* USED BY MEMBERS OF OUR PREMIER SHOOTING TEAMS:
ARMY MARKSMANSHIP UNIT
U.S F OPEN NATIONAL TEAM
U.S F T/R NATIONAL TEAM

* COOL HUNTING AND VARMINT RIFLES QUICKLY AND SAFELY

 

[jfseaman]

jfseaman - you keep going on and on about a series of events about which you apparently know very little, regardless of the fact that they've been spelled out very clearly here. I can only speak for myself, but I neither "threatened" nor "attacked" anyone. I initially pointed out the similarity between the two devices and asked what the actual difference was. After being informed they were "totally different" because of a different type of batteries and slightly different motor speed, I expressed my opinion that in fact they were not really different at all, and that in my opinion there were also likely to be patent infringement issues. After a couple back-and-forths, the thread was removed.

The removal of the posts, combined with the fact that a BarrelCool was requested for the purpose of "reviewing it", only to make some very minor changes and then try to market it in direct competition with the BarrelCool seems pretty suspicious to me. Your assertion that this is some kind of an attempt to squash innovation is ridiculous. Innovation is more than simply changing the type of battery in a device, or using a motor with a slightly faster speed. Perhaps instead of going on and on about something about which you have little knowledge, you should try investing significant amounts of your own time and effort to develop an innovative product, and then successfully market it. When someone request a free sample to "review it", but then makes a few changes and tries to market your device as their own, I rather suspect you will have a much different view on the entire matter. In any event, your opinion and mine are both equally meaningless as I'm sure the patent lawyers will ultimately decide whether there has or has not been patent infringement.

@gstaylorg are you part of "Barrel Cool"?

Telling me what I know and don't know is just plain rude. How can you know what I know? Are you omnipotent?

Telling me to innovate? I guess you missed the part where I made my own long before the "Barrel Cool". The operator of the the range I shoot at says "always coming up with something new". As far as "successfully market it", how do you think I have so much time to spend pointing out your issues with your assumptions. Just because you don't know where/how I have "made it"...

I guess you also missed the part where I purchased a "Barrel Cool" that for me does not meet expectations.

Along with @falconpilot misspelling my name on purpose, it just seems you have to attack the person not the opposing opinion. That part of all these exchanges really could use some work.

We disagree on public posts that had to be removed, Facebook posts that had to be removed, Youtube posts that had to be removed. The "Barrel Cool" guys should not have done that. Period, no excuses. If they really had a patent, it should all have been done with proper "demand letters".

We agree on defending a patent, however, there appears to be no patent yet and the product was released to the public, possible making the "Barrel Cool" public domain and the "Barrel Cool" people in violation of the law by claiming infringement and threatening action. The "Barrel Cool" people should post the provisional and registration numbers or admit that they are making false claims about the patent. IMO, there is way to much prior art. The only "innovation" of a "Barrel Cool" is that it doubles as a chamber flag, on or off. However, for me, in to many rifles, that part does not work as intended as it falls out. The problem is the fan location. There are other "issues" I have with the device. We were told by the "Barrel Cool" guys that batteries are "cheap" and we sell batteries.

We disagree on where "Barrel Cool" profit will come from. There is only a couple hundred dollars of profit from the "Barrel Cool" device at stake here, though based on what the "Barrel Cool" guys have said, the profit may be in batteries. Other than mark up for batteries, IMO the money made by "Barrel Cool" will all be from patent prosecutions, not from the product. If the product was so good as to warrant patent defense because there was a real market the "Barrel Cool" people would be too busy making and shipping. Of course I could be wrong on the "profit potential" of the "Barrel Cool" device. I have not seen the business plan. I have made and seen lots of business plans and know what to look for.

Do I condone @Das Capitolin making such a device that is so close to a "Barrel Cool" after doing a review of the product for public consumption and product endorsement, no I don't. IMO: In that process, both parties behaved badly. The review is now gone so I can't reference it. According to @Das Capitolin , he lived up to his side of the deal regarding the review. From there on IMO: both parties should have taken "improvements" discussions private and kept it private.

Fan type, battery type and shape are technically all enough to differentiate the two devices. The "doubles as a chamber flag" part is the only feature I have not yet found "prior art" on. When my "Chamber Chiller" shows up, if it is not chamber flag yellow then even that part IMO could be an automatic fail. If/When I do find the chamber flag feature as prior art, IMO then all features of the "Barrel Cool" would then be none defensible.

 

[jfseaman]

I know the feeling. I have had no less than 3 things that I designed stolen/copied.

It is an affliction shared. I'm sorry this happened to you.

However, it has ever been thus. There are procedures that can be use to protect "inventions". However, they require before public reveal and post public reveal processes that many, myself included miss details on.

 

[Ned Ludd]

I'm the person that has been referred to earlier in this thread as bsumoba's friend, where it at minimum was inferred that we attacked and/or threatened the maker of the second device, which is absolutely untrue for my part. So I do know something about what has transpired; far more than you, obviously. What is your involvement in tho issue other than to continually post and stir the pot? You have been going on and on here fanning the flames about a topic, which as I stated earlier, you apparently know very little. If you think that's rude and unwarranted, I don't care. I think your needless involvement in this whole issue is rude and unwarranted. I have no stake in this venture on either side, and I don't own either device. I am familiar with both of the individuals involved, largely through internet shooting forums, although I have met Bryan in person at a match a couple years ago. I have no malice toward either one. However, the second I saw the advertisement for the new cooling device, I knew there was going to be trouble, because IMO, it was a very close, if not functionally identical, copy of the BarrelCool. For that reason I put my opinion regarding the new device on record for people to make their own informed judgement. I would do the exact same thing again, regardless of who the individuals were, because I'm simply not a big fan of that kind of behavior. It's not about profit margin, it's about right and wrong.

 

[Das Capitolin]

I'm the person that has been referred to earlier in this thread as bsumoba's friend, where it at minimum was inferred that we attacked and/or threatened the maker of the second device, which is absolutely untrue for my part. So I do know something about what has transpired; far more than you, obviously. What is your involvement in tho issue other than to continually post and stir the pot? You have been going on and on here fanning the flames about a topic, which as I stated earlier, you apparently know very little. If you think that's rude and unwarranted, I don't care. I think your needless involvement in this whole issue is rude and unwarranted. I have no stake in this venture on either side, and I don't own either device. I am familiar with both of the individuals involved, largely through internet shooting forums, although I have met Bryan in person at a match a couple years ago. I have no malice toward either one. However, the second I saw the advertisement for the new cooling device, I knew there was going to be trouble, because IMO, it was a very close, if not functionally identical, copy of the BarrelCool. For that reason I put my opinion regarding the new device on record for people to make their own informed judgement. I would do the exact same thing again, regardless of who the individuals were, because I'm simply not a big fan of that kind of behavior. It's not about profit margin, it's about right and wrong.

You sir, are a liar. I have time stamped copies of all the posts made, and threads created. You came to my thread, posted outrageous claims that "it looks to be identical on the outside", and repeatedly posted links back to this other product. When I created a new thread, you followed me there and antagonized me all over again. You even made it a point to say "I'll continue to repost whenever he tries to start a new thread". That is the very definition of attack, which you can look up for yourself. So you've just outed yourself as a liar.

 

[bsumoba]

I wish you well on Barrel Cools defense of it's Patent. Based on the $ involved, it appears the likely winners will be the attorneys.

Attorneys ALWAYS win...

 

[Das Capitolin]

Attorneys ALWAYS win...

Then why aren't you communicating with me to resolve this? I've tried many times, but you seem reluctant to discuss this matter with anything except attorney letters.

 

[jfseaman]

I'm the person that has been referred to earlier in this thread as bsumoba's friend, ...If you think that's rude and unwarranted, I don't care. I think your needless involvement in this whole issue is rude and unwarranted. I have no stake in this venture on either side, and I don't own either device...

By you own admission, you have not stake in this. That makes us equal. So, why do you berate me for expressing my opinion and you express your opinion.

The pot calling the kettle black (as in charred). If you have no sin in any of this, carry on. I have no sin in this. I am not "stirring the pot". The pot was already boiling over.

 

[jfseaman]

Then why aren't you communicating with me to resolve this? I've tried many times, but you seem reluctant to discuss this matter with anything except attorney letters.

And that is the crux of why I piped up. @bsumoba and co. started with public and private belligerence and by so doing created a war where no war was needed. Pride is a terrible mistress. IMO pride is driving this conflict. Pride has been the down fall of many.

 

[Area51]

Barrel cool, great device, works well under any reasonable to even some not so reasonable conditions.
i have been using mine fr about 6 months now.
Great guy to deal with, great device, as good as it can be at this price point.
Get Bbl Cool, simply the best.
Forget the rest.
As much as we spend on this life style "hobby" ya cant hardly screw this up.
You will enjoy testing the little device anyway, and thats worth the entry price alone.
And you can cool that in court all you like, ha !

 

[falconpilot]

Holycrap!!'! I couldn't figure out why you reacted like you did jfseaman to my second post...then I read the post above regarding my misspelling your name as jfseman, and called you Fred..I was working on two post at same time, and called you Fred, the other guy, by accident..I went back and corrected the post as soon as I saw it, but apparently not before you captured quote...I couldn't figure out what you where referring to until I went back and reread the comment..I assure you that was not intentional and I'd completely missed it..you seem to be the one awfully fast to jump and start with the insults..maybe you could use a little work, not the rest of us..after all, I only called you Fred..and jfseman.if I'd wanted to call you Semen, I would have!

Anyone that knows me would assure you that I don't mind speaking my mind and if I'd intended to insult you, you'd damn well known it..

Take it or leave it..don't really matter to me either way.

 

[Ned Ludd]

You sir, are a liar. I have time stamped copies of all the posts made, and threads created. You came to my thread, posted outrageous claims that "it looks to be identical on the outside", and repeatedly posted links back to this other product. When I created a new thread, you followed me there and antagonized me all over again. You even made it a point to say "I'll continue to repost whenever he tries to start a new thread". That is the very definition of attack, which you can look up for yourself. So you've just outed yourself as a liar.

You're among the last people on this forum that should be accusing someone of being less than honest. I know exactly what you did, and so do you. If you don't, you're be dishonest to yourself, which is even worse than doing it to others. I spoke truthfully, stating facts. If you consider that to be an attack or antagonizing, then perhaps you shouldn't have done things the way you did. Sometimes, the truth does hurt.

 

[Ned Ludd]

By you own admission, you have not stake in this. That makes us equal. So, why do you berate me for expressing my opinion and you express your opinion.

The pot calling the kettle black (as in charred). If you have no sin in any of this, carry on. I have no sin in this. I am not "stirring the pot". The pot was already boiling over.

I'd say there's some small difference in my pointing out the similarities so prospective buyers have some idea of what's going on and your 18 posts in 3 days.

 

[USMCDOC]