Barrel break-in.....Good, Bad or Pointless?

[stinnett1981]

Barrel Break-In....Good, Bad or Completely Pointless?

I'm sure this topic has been on this site many times! I'm new to this site, so I ask. I have many shotguns and 2 .22lr's. I bought my first centerfire rifle not long ago (Remington 700P .223) and just ordered a second centerfire rife (Remington 700P .308). I asked the gunsmith at the gunshop that I purchased both centerfire rifles if barrel break-in is necessary. He said there is no such thing. He said to always keep your gun clean and LIGHTLY oiled. He said to clean and LIGHTLY oil the rifle before ever firing it. THEN GO SHOOTING! He said to clean and LIGHTLY oil your gun after you are done shooting. He was not elaborate about how to clean a rifle and how many shots between each cleaning.

This is how I cleaned and oiled my rifle from the time I first bought it.
I bought 2 Hobbs bore snakes, Hobbs #9 solvent and a can of Remington Oil. I use 1 Hobbs bore snake for solvent and the other for oil. I cleaned and oiled (Dip the bronze brush of the Bore Snake in the Hobbs #9 solvent and run it through the rifle 5 times. With the other Bore Snake I soak the bronze brush with Remington oil and run it through the rifle 5 times) my rifle before I ever shot it. I went out to my hunting ground and shot 20 rounds. I cleaned and oil my rifle again. I shot 20 more rounds. Went home and cleaned and oiled my rifle. The next weekend I did the same thing. Now I clean and oil my rifle after every 25 rounds. My gun NOW shoots UNDER 1/2 MOA! It seems like the rifle is getting more and more accurate!

Attached below is a picture of a Hobbs boresnake if one does not know what it is. The link below is how it works.
www.hoppes.com/products/ca_boresnakes.html

What I'm asking is!!!
1: Is there such thing as barrel break-in?
2: Details on how to clean a rifle barrel and how often to do it?
3: When and how often is copper solvent used? How to use copper solvent?
4: Do you have to use a cleaning rod to clean a barrel? or is the boresnake good enough?

Thanks!!!​

 

[fdshuster]

stinnett1981: I follow the barrel makers recommendation. Krieger includes a break-in procedure, ( very simple, not complicated) with every barrel.

When I was using a lot of Hart barrels, I followed their recommendation, which is basically, " shoot it and keep it clean".

Shilen has stated that while they have a cleaning procedure published, it's only because their customers expect it.

The barrel makers know more about their barrels than I do, so I generally follow their advice.

Question about your Bore Snake? How do to prevent solvent from dripping into the trigger, magazine, receiver & bedding areas when it is squeezed down when first entering the chamber? Just askin.

I believe in using a fitted bore guide ( not the $2.95 plastic, one-size-fits-all) and BoreTech/ Dewey coated one piece rods only.

 

[stretch308]

Do you clean out the snake when your done ? All that copper and powder dont just vanish when you finish. All my guides rods and jags get wiped with fast dry aerosol (gun scrubber ,crud blaster ,electric contact cleaner)when Im finished.

 

[snowedin]

I will make an attempt at answering your questions, but my experience and knowledge is limited compared to many who post in this forum.

1: Is there such thing as barrel break-in?

Sometimes. It is not uncommon for some original equipment barrels to have a relatively rough bore left by tooling in the manufacturing process. This roughness may cause quicker copper and powder fouling. In an extreme situation, this could lead to a less accurate barrel, and if never cleaned may eventually cause over pressure due to excessive build up of copper and powder. If the barrel is very rough the shooter may want to clean it often, using all the tools at his disposal. Over time, as the barrel becomes "broken in" (a reduction in the severity of the tooling marks) the fouling may become less of a problem, accuracy may improve, and he may want to modify his cleaning regimen so as to be less destructive to the barrel.

I cannot comment on your barrels directly, other than to say an improvement in accuracy is rarely a bad thing! Each barrel is an entity unto itself.

From what I understand, high end aftermarket barrels will generally be less susceptible to fouling as many are hand lapped to remove the roughest of the tooling marks. The bore is also made more consistent in dimension during this process. These may require less cleaning from the get go.

3: When and how often is copper solvent used? How to use copper solvent?

Use copper solvent when there is copper fouling present. Follow manufacturers directions and heed cautions and warnings.

How to tell if there is copper, or powder, fouling present? Buy an $800 bore scope and look for copper colored deposits (copper) and black deposits (powder). I don't use one because I can't have one.

What I have is a 10X loupe with a little light built into it that I bought at a hobby store for $15. It allows me to see detail as much as an inch into the muzzle. (BE AWARE, there will be different levels of fouling at different locations in the bore.) This, combined with feedback from pushing patches down the bore gets me, I think, in the ball park. With practice, you will be able to feel tight spots in the bore as you run a jag with a dry tight patch through it. Pay particular attention to the first several inches forward of the chamber, as this may be where the greatest buildup could occur. In my limited experience, powder fouling with the rifles I have been shooting lately has been much more troublesome than copper. You may find differently.

Become one with your bores. You may want to consider it as a zen and art of bore maintenance type deal. I still have a varmint rifle my father gave me as a present in the late sixties. It has always fouled FAR less than the newer guns I have been shooting lately, therefore I use a different cleaning process.

2: Details on how to clean a rifle barrel and how often to do it?

Ask 100 shooters how to clean a bore, and you will get 100 different answers. Each individual shooter may even have a different answer on how to clean, depending on which barrel they are working on. That said, there are some universal truths.

Never use a bore snake.

Shooting bullets down a bore will cause wear. Cleaning a bore will also cause wear.

Always push from chamber to muzzle. Always unscrew the jag or brush from the end of the rod before pulling the rod back through the bore. Always wipe the rod clean before the next pass.

Whichever cleaning solvents you decide to go with, read and follow the manufacturers directions, and heed all cautions and warnings.

A clean patch is not a reliable indicator of a clean bore.

Looking through a bore with the naked eye will not tell you if it is clean.

Take extra caution to protect the rifling during cleaning at the chamber end, and at the muzzle

These are MY universal truths. Some shooters may share them, some may not. I may alter them as I gain more experience

The rifles I am shooting right now are relatively new, stock, and after shooting a bit it became apparent that they had very rough bores. Fouling was extreme, accuracy was dismal, and I used every tool at my disposal (plus some) during each cleaning session.

I got after the powder fouling first. Then the copper. Then the powder again. Many here would be shocked at the way I've treated my bores, but they were extremely rough and were not just prone to fouling, they FOULED. The tools I had to use in the manner which I used them would make the high end gun owner gnash teeth and wail. But it worked. The fouling is much slower to develop now and they are beginning to shoot very well, thank you. As they "break in" I am modifying my cleaning habits.

My first high end barrel is on the way, and I will be treating it FAR differently. I have read accounts of some shooters with high end barrels never touching a bore with a brush. Patches only. Your factory barrels will probably be somewhere in between the extremes.

4: Do you have to use a cleaning rod to clean a barrel? or is the boresnake good enough?

Always use a cleaning rod. Never use a bore snake.

This is life as I know it. Your experience is, and will continue to be, different and unique. Looks like you have a good shooting Remy, enjoy!

 

[glo]

1: Is there such thing as barrel break-in?
Yes. It depends on the on how well the barrel is made.

2: Details on how to clean a rifle barrel and how often to do it?
See above. The Kreiger info is fine. How often? It depends on how long it take to copper fowl; the better the barrel the less often you have to clean. The 700P barrels are very good for factory barrels.

3: When and how often is copper solvent used? How to use copper solvent?
I think anything with ammonia in it its a copper solvent. I use copper solvent every time. I have also been using Bore Tech Eliminator. It works very well. No ammonia in it.

4: Do you have to use a cleaning rod to clean a barrel? or is the boresnake good enough?
I think a boresnake is just fine.

 

[Forum Boss]

Bore-snake is a handy "field-expedient" bore swabbing system. However if you use a borescope you will find a lot of stuff that the boresnake leaves behind. I haven't found the snakes to be particularly effective on copper fouling.

My personal favorite cleaning method is to use 3-4 soaking wet patches followed by Wipe-Out bore foam. I let the first foam app sit for about 20 minutes until the bubbles dissipate, then I re-apply. I use a cleaning rod bore guide to keep the foam out of the action. After about 4 hours dwell time, I remove the residual Wipe-Out with dry patches, and put the gun away. If it will be stored a long time, I'll run a wet patch with Eezox down the bore.

My better barrels require very little brushing. There are many different modes of cleaning. Many matches have been won with barrels that have been aggressively brushed. However, my theory is that, if you have a barrel that shoots very well from the beginning, you should follow the LEAST INVASIVE cleaning method that restores your barrel to good accuracy. Note -- that may not mean "get the barrel squeaky clean". Some barrels do need brushing. For these, I recommend removing the brush after it exits the muzzle and then cleaning it off with solvent before re-insertion.

Some very successful shooters think it is stupid to remove the brush and they saw their brushes back and forth. Again, this works for some people very effectively. However, I have inspected many barrels that have been brushed aggressively with bronze (brush passing back and forth over crown) and I have seen first-hand how this can make the edge of the crown look like sharks teeth.

I think, with the exception of "point blank" BR shooters who typically replace barrels frequently (with as little as 700 rounds on them), there is a general trend to shooting longer strings between cleanings and cleaning with less invasive methods. This not only saves you time, but it may, potentially extend barrel life -- at least crown life.

With each new barrel I recommend shooting a continuous string, without cleaning, until you see the accuracy go off. That gives you an idea of the appropriate cleaning interval with that particular barrel. You may find that accuracy actually improves with 15 or 20 rounds through the tube (on some barrels).

Regarding barrel break-in -- I'll let others speculate on its merits. With a new barrel, I tend to run wet patches through ever three rounds for about 20 rounds, and then I call it good to go. I try to avoid brushing, unless it actually proves to be necessary. My best-shooting barrel, a PacNor three-groove, has never seen a brush of any kind, and it shoots in the high ones with flat-based bullets. That barrel is normally cleaned with wet patches and Wipe-out as described above. You won't see me put a Bore-Snake anywhere near that barrel.

 

[bozo699]

stinnett1981: I follow the barrel makers recommendation. Krieger includes a break-in procedure, ( very simple, not complicated) with every barrel.

When I was using a lot of Hart barrels, I followed their recommendation, which is basically, " shoot it and keep it clean".

Shilen has stated that while they have a cleaning procedure published, it's only because their customers expect it.

The barrel makers know more about their barrels than I do, so I generally follow their advice.

Question about your Bore Snake? How do to prevent solvent from dripping into the trigger, magazine, receiver & bedding areas when it is squeezed down when first entering the chamber? Just askin.

I believe in using a fitted bore guide ( not the $2.95 plastic, one-size-fits-all) and BoreTech/ Dewey coated one piece rods only.

stinnett1981,
fdshuster's advice is spot on,.....bore snakes are for shotguns and lever action rifles. Factory rifles like your Remingtons have rough barrels usually and copper up easily, a quality bore guide and one piece rod is the way to go, if you ding up your crown or lead end of your chamber, no matter if it a factory barrel or a custom barrel it's accuracy will be gone, follow Franks advice.
Wayne.

 

[stinnett1981]

The questions you guys asked me.

How do I make sure solvent isn't dripping down into my trigger, bedding and action. I hold the gun strait down and pull the snake out the muzzle. Use dry rag to wipe out back of bore while the gun is still pointed straight down.

Yes, the boresnake is 100% washable. Hot water, little dawn and wash and rinse the heck out of it.

Where did you hear to never use a boresnake? How could it hurt a rifle barrel? I'm a realist. As an industrial electrician/PLC programmer I use logic and common sense as my number 1 troubleshooting guide (if this conveyor motor isn't turning on then why?) I'm not being defensive, just really wanting to know where you heard it and why not to use it?

I do plan on buying a QUALITY fitted bore guide and COATED 1 piece cleaning rod like fdshuster recommended. I have seen articles multiple times online from so called professional gunsmiths that the number 1 cause of damage to a rifle barrel is crappy flimsy metal cleaning rods and not using bore guides. Like I said "I'm a realist" and that makes total sense to me.

I appreciate all the feedback!!! Keep it coming!!!

 

[WyleWD]

First off a belated "welcome" to the board!!

+2 on fdshuster & bozo's advice. WD

 

[snowedin]

stinnett, read Forum Boss's post carefully. You will find Bore Snake info in there.

 

[Killshot]

The boresnake thing seems to have ramped up in recent years right along with everything "tactical".
Ie; they're used by Operators so they must be good....
:

 

[bozo699]

The questions you guys asked me.

How do I make sure solvent isn't dripping down into my trigger, bedding and action. I hold the gun strait down and pull the snake out the muzzle. Use dry rag to wipe out back of bore while the gun is still pointed straight down.

Yes, the boresnake is 100% washable. Hot water, little dawn and wash and rinse the heck out of it.

Where did you hear to never use a boresnake? How could it hurt a rifle barrel? I'm a realist. As an industrial electrician/PLC programmer I use logic and common sense as my number 1 troubleshooting guide (if this conveyor motor isn't turning on then why?) I'm not being defensive, just really wanting to know where you heard it and why not to use it?

I do plan on buying a QUALITY fitted bore guide and COATED 1 piece cleaning rod like fdshuster recommended. I have seen articles multiple times online from so called professional gunsmiths that the number 1 cause of damage to a rifle barrel is crappy flimsy metal cleaning rods and not using bore guides. Like I said "I'm a realist" and that makes total sense to me.

I appreciate all the feedback!!! Keep it coming!!!

stinnett1981,
As a fellow Elec/Tech I understand where your coming from however when your trouble shooting a piece of equipment you use a method that is known to work, when writing a new program do you start from scratch or do you paste one from another machine that is virtually the same and just make small changes to customize it to your needs?,..A timer here, a move there, a bit here. If there was say 10000 members on this forum and 9995 were using a quality bore guide and rod what would you say the chances were that that method worked, you ask the question my friend,...we gave you our opinion. Bore snakes are useful tools, not what I clean my BR rifles or hunting rifles except for my lever action hunting guns and shotguns that I believe they were made for or them funny looking black guns everybody is so crazy about, best of luck to you.
Wayne.

 

[stinnett1981]

Yes and no. Matters about the application. We are currently changing all of our older machines (PLC5) to control logics 5000 (technology changes every day). All new machines now of days comes with control logics 5000. You cant download a PLC5 program to a control logics processor. I dont know how to anyway??? Control logics is completely different. Yes you can download a control logics 5000 program to another control logics processor. Same with a PLC5 to a PLC5 and same with a SLC500 to a SLC500. SLC500 and PLC5 can interchange too. And yes we do download existing programs to new applications when we have multiple identical things. Such as "labelers" for pallets of product. And yes we have to go into the program and make small changes because every labeler works on a different manufacturing line. Different brandcodes = different number to be moved, equal to, equal or less than, equal or greater than. Then jump to subroutine for a completely different program within the mainprogram. Lots and lots and lots more! Controls isnt my cup of tea. I would rather work with power systems. But Im sure people on a shooting forum dont want to read all of this. LOL

But yes, I got your point. And thank you and everybody else for the feedback. I dont ever plan on shooting competition nor spending $5000 on a rifle. Just curious how the pros do things in the shooting world. I have ground in the sticks and I shoot guns and hunt there. Lately I been target shooting and thats what brought me to this website. Something about shooting a little bitty thing from a really far distance really excites me!

 

[effendude]

Stinnett,
Some of us members have a hard time turning off the accuracy mode in our brains. Snakes are better than not cleaning at all,but there are much better means of cleaning as others have posted.

From a hunting perspective, I use boresnakes as a packable field cleaning tool on hunting trips. If something gets in the bore; snow, dirt, etc, I can pull a snake though and get back to hunting. I also use them as a cold bore/first shot tool for hunting. After cleaning and sighting in the rifle prior to a hunt. I will do final sight-in with a freshly snaked rifle with each shot. I want to know that each shot goes where I want immediately after snaking because I can control that scenario. Rifles sometimes have a hard life on a hunt and I can easily remove foreign material with the snake.

Congrats on your shooting so far. Keep shooting small groups and you won't be satisfied with not shooting the best you can. No cure for the disease except more shooting!

Good Luck,
Scott

 

[bozo699]

Yes and no. Matters about the application. We are currently changing all of our older machines (PLC5) to control logics 5000 (technology changes every day). All new machines now of days comes with control logics 5000. You cant download a PLC5 program to a control logics processor. I dont know how to anyway??? Control logics is completely different. Yes you can download a control logics 5000 program to another control logics processor. Same with a PLC5 to a PLC5 and same with a SLC500 to a SLC500. SLC500 and PLC5 can interchange too. And yes we do download existing programs to new applications when we have multiple identical things. Such as "labelers" for pallets of product. And yes we have to go into the program and make small changes because every labeler works on a different manufacturing line. Different brandcodes = different number to be moved, equal to, equal or less than, equal or greater than. Then jump to subroutine for a completely different program within the mainprogram. Lots and lots and lots more! Controls isnt my cup of tea. I would rather work with power systems. But Im sure people on a shooting forum dont want to read all of this. LOL

But yes, I got your point. And thank you and everybody else for the feedback. I dont ever plan on shooting competition nor spending $5000 on a rifle. Just curious how the pros do things in the shooting world. I have ground in the sticks and I shoot guns and hunt there. Lately I been target shooting and thats what brought me to this website. Something about shooting a little bitty thing from a really far distance really excites me!

stinnett1981,
Your already hooked my friend, What Scott said about the Snake is exactly what I use mine for on a bolt rifle, emergency field use. I would like to talk shop with you sometime in a p.m, email or phone as I think our jobs are real similar. Take care and happy shooting to you
Wayne.

 

[johara1]

I will make this simple; (1) I break in with 5 shoot and clean and bore scope, when it quits making copper go for it. (2) I don't use a brush any more and the barrels seem to last longer and the crown will last for a lot longer. (3) This would be part of #2 i use Warthog 1134 every time and never try get completely clean except when i'm done for the year. I use a bore scope to watch for copper. (4) I had about every rod at one time or an other and have ended up with an Ivy stainless rod, it beats the others hands down for easy on the bore and clean coated rods carry the dirt right back in. and bore snake is like using used patches. A quality bore guide is a must......jim