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Barnard Trigger reset issues

ryanjay11

Gold $$ Contributor
My Barnard trigger has developed an issue where it will not reset after firing unless I pull back on the trigger while the bolt is open. This is not ideal and disrupts my routine while shooting.

I did an internet search and the only information I've found was this thread, which suggested it needed cleaned and adjusted. I did my best to clean it in an ultrasonic cleaner and am fairly proficient in the adjustment using the directions on the Barnard website.

Has anyone else had this issue? Could you please post how you resolved it?
 
I did an internet search and the only information I've found was this thread, which suggested it needed cleaned and adjusted. I did my best to clean it in an ultrasonic cleaner and am fairly proficient in the adjustment using the directions on the Barnard website.

Has anyone else had this issue? Could you please post how you resolved it?
[/QUOTE]

I completely messed up my first attempt at writing a reply! Ignore that one.

Ryan:

I can think of a few things that might be causing your problem, and fixing it shouldn't be too difficult. But just replacing springs is unlikely to be a cure.

Do you have a drawing of the 'innards' of the Barnard trigger? If not, I'll dig out one that I have somewhere and post that. Explaining the situation in words alone would be difficult, and probably hard to understand.
 
I just ordered one. Thank you for the recommendation.
I see my attempts to post a reply yesterday, trying to fix up a previous foul up, has suddenly appeared 0 about 240hours later.

Oh well, here goes my latest attempt!

Ryan:

Replacing the springs in your Barnard trigger MIGHT solve your problem with it not resetting, but don’t bet on it.

Look at the diagram below of the ‘innards’ of the trigger mechanism. Fairly obviously, the solid-line outlines of the sear and middle lever represent them in the cocked position and the dotted-line outlines where they are in the fired position.

When the system is working correctly, opening the bolt after firing takes the load off the sear, and the reset spring (the one bearing on the front of the middle lever) pushes the middle lever back to a position where the tip of it is behind the engagement ledge on the bottom lever. This action, of course, also pushes the sear upwards. The middle lever is loose-mounted (ie the diameter of the hole in it is larger than that of the mounting pin) so when resetting, the middle lever can rise upwards slightly enabling the tip of it to pass easily over the top of the lower lever.

From your description of what is happening with your trigger, it seems almost certain that when you open the bolt, the tip of the middle lever is in some way getting caught up on the top of the lower lever before it gets back behind the engagement ledge, and is sticking there, so the rifle cannot re-cock. It therefore follows that pulling the trigger at this stage – moving the forward part of the lower lever downwards – would free the tip of the middle lever and allow it to reset, as you describe.

I suppose a seriously weakened reset spring MIGHT cause this problem, but I think it is unlikely to be the sole case. If the middle lever is able to both rotate and move upwards freely, it only requires a small amount of force from the reset spring to move it fully backwards. I suspect that there could be dirt inside the housing, which is either preventing the middle lever from moving upwards as it rotates, or has created a ‘gummy’ sort of layer on the top of the lower lever which the tip of the middle lever is catching on. Or, possibly, the top of the lower lever and/or the engagement ledge, or the tip of the middle lever, or both, have become burred. Though if that is the case, I think it would have caused noticeable deterioration of the trigger let-off and alerted you to the fact that something was wrong.

Take these thoughts for what they are worth. If you are going to replace the reset spring, you will have to take the trigger unit apart, and you can check for dirt and burring then. There could be dirt in there that the ultrasonic cleaner couldn’t shift. I am using the word ‘dirt’ in a broad sense, meaning dust, powder and primer residue, dried up oil, etc. etc.

I would be extremely wary of what was said about lubricating the trigger in the thread from OzFclass that you have provided a link to. NEVER put oil in a trigger of this type! Or any other trigger, except, perhaps, for military type, direct-draw models. It will attract dirt, and some types will congeal with age to create a sticky surface.

If a trigger has been taken apart and all the parts cleaned up as required, give them a final wash in hexane, white gasoline, white spirit, Coleman fuel, or whatever it is called in your part of the world. Then reassemble – and keep the oil can away from it!

Hope this helps.

upload_2018-5-26_22-11-3.jpeg
 
I had the same problem last year.The spring will help but also see how rough the ledge is where the sear has to back over to re cock.It might need to be polished mine did.When taking the trigger apart be careful the little balls bounce and run.But first I would lessen the sear engagement .
 
I had one doing what was described on a model GP action & when I first noticed it I had chambered a round & closed the bolt not expecting what proceeded (a discharge of a 50 Bmg round & a 800 gr. bullet heading down-range). - I got ahold of Mac Tilton who was running MT Guns and was the distributor for Barnard actions back at that time. - Mac directed me to take it off the action and flush it well with mineral spirits a couple times and then remount the trigger and test using dummy-rounds or snap-caps. - This cleared the problem up temporarily. - It seems this trigger is quite sensitive to oil and any type of foreign matter intrusion. - I'm personally hoping that Bix will eventually come through with a replacement for the Barnard Target Trigger. - I have learned a few things here in this post through the answers that Redrover provided.
- Thank You !!

- Ron -
 
What you describe could also be too much sear engagement which can stop the middle lever from restting.
I doubt very much replacing the springs will actually fix your problem, I see this kind of problem quite often, and normally find the sear overadjusted. Follow the instructions that should have come with the action or download off the Barnard website.
Regards
Matt P
 
I had one doing what was described on a model GP action & when I first noticed it I had chambered a round & closed the bolt not expecting what proceeded (a discharge of a 50 Bmg round & a 800 gr. bullet heading down-range). - I got ahold of Mac Tilton who was running MT Guns and was the distributor for Barnard actions back at that time. - Mac directed me to take it off the action and flush it well with mineral spirits a couple times and then remount the trigger and test using dummy-rounds or snap-caps. - This cleared the problem up temporarily. - It seems this trigger is quite sensitive to oil and any type of foreign matter intrusion. - I'm personally hoping that Bix will eventually come through with a replacement for the Barnard Target Trigger. - I have learned a few things here in this post through the answers that Redrover provided.
- Thank You !!

- Ron -
Ron:

Yes, the Barnard trigger can be sensitive to foreign bodies etc getting into the works, but it doesn’t have a monopoly on this. Target rifle triggers nearly always have multiple levers in them, some just three, and others rather more. They are usually designed to be capable of being adjusted down to let-off weights in the single ounces range, so some parts have very little spring force on them, and this does make them sensitive to getting even slightly gummed up inside. Far more so than, say, a typical two lever hunting rifle type of trigger set to let-off weight of two or three pounds.

Over the years, I have seen a number of postings on internet forums with people complaining about Jewell triggers misbehaving, and then subsequently finding that the problem was due to foreign matter in the works.

About twenty years ago a friend inherited a couple of Grunig and Elmiger target rifles which were probably made at least forty years ago. He decided to keep one of them, and I bought the other from the estate. There was obviously a close tie-up between G & E and Anschutz in those days (maybe there still is) because the triggers on these two rifles, five lever jobs, are almost identical to that on my Anschutz 1408 22 target rifle. Just some minor differences in the top lever/sear arrangement.

For a while, all was well with both rifles, then my friend’s one started failing to reset, exactly in the way Ryan described in his original post. He tried the ‘wash it in spirit’ remedy, but it didn’t help, and as he didn’t feel confidant to dismantle it himself, I did it for him. There was a horrible mess inside of it – blackish coloured gunk stuck all over the inner faces of the housing, the sides of most of the levers, and on some other non-contact parts of the levers. I don’t know what this stuff was, but it was VERY difficult to remove. Solvent and toothbrush made no impression on it at all, and a bronze brush didn’t do much better.

In the end I had to resort to fine abrasives to clean things up. Fortunately, the disengagement ledges and other ‘working’ surfaces of the levers looked clean and shiny, with no discernible burring or damage, so I left them alone. I reassembled the unit, put it back in the rifle and it worked perfectly after some minor adjustments, and is still doing so today. Less than a year later, my G & E rifle did exactly the same thing, and I had to go through all that drill again. Once more, after minor adjustments, it worked perfectly and still does. I don’t pretend to know what had caused the build-up of gunk in these two triggers, but I suspect the previous owner might have belonged to the school of thought ‘If it doesn’t move – tighten it. If it does move – oil it’.


Matt:

I presume that by ‘sear engagement’ you mean overlap of the tip of the middle lever and the ledge on the bottom lever. (which is quite separate from the sear) I suppose an excessive overlap there COULD cause reset problems, but it would also result in a large amount of trigger creep (pre-release movement) which I think most shooters would find unacceptable. The majority of shooters want a clean, crisp, creep free trigger release - not a big long pull like the trigger on a Glock pistol. :)
 
Ron:

Yes, the Barnard trigger can be sensitive to foreign bodies etc getting into the works, but it doesn’t have a monopoly on this. Target rifle triggers nearly always have multiple levers in them, some just three, and others rather more. They are usually designed to be capable of being adjusted down to let-off weights in the single ounces range, so some parts have very little spring force on them, and this does make them sensitive to getting even slightly gummed up inside. Far more so than, say, a typical two lever hunting rifle type of trigger set to let-off weight of two or three pounds.

Over the years, I have seen a number of postings on internet forums with people complaining about Jewell triggers misbehaving, and then subsequently finding that the problem was due to foreign matter in the works.

About twenty years ago a friend inherited a couple of Grunig and Elmiger target rifles which were probably made at least forty years ago. He decided to keep one of them, and I bought the other from the estate. There was obviously a close tie-up between G & E and Anschutz in those days (maybe there still is) because the triggers on these two rifles, five lever jobs, are almost identical to that on my Anschutz 1408 22 target rifle. Just some minor differences in the top lever/sear arrangement.

For a while, all was well with both rifles, then my friend’s one started failing to reset, exactly in the way Ryan described in his original post. He tried the ‘wash it in spirit’ remedy, but it didn’t help, and as he didn’t feel confidant to dismantle it himself, I did it for him. There was a horrible mess inside of it – blackish coloured gunk stuck all over the inner faces of the housing, the sides of most of the levers, and on some other non-contact parts of the levers. I don’t know what this stuff was, but it was VERY difficult to remove. Solvent and toothbrush made no impression on it at all, and a bronze brush didn’t do much better.

In the end I had to resort to fine abrasives to clean things up. Fortunately, the disengagement ledges and other ‘working’ surfaces of the levers looked clean and shiny, with no discernible burring or damage, so I left them alone. I reassembled the unit, put it back in the rifle and it worked perfectly after some minor adjustments, and is still doing so today. Less than a year later, my G & E rifle did exactly the same thing, and I had to go through all that drill again. Once more, after minor adjustments, it worked perfectly and still does. I don’t pretend to know what had caused the build-up of gunk in these two triggers, but I suspect the previous owner might have belonged to the school of thought ‘If it doesn’t move – tighten it. If it does move – oil it’.


Matt:

I presume that by ‘sear engagement’ you mean overlap of the tip of the middle lever and the ledge on the bottom lever. (which is quite separate from the sear) I suppose an excessive overlap there COULD cause reset problems, but it would also result in a large amount of trigger creep (pre-release movement) which I think most shooters would find unacceptable. The majority of shooters want a clean, crisp, creep free trigger release - not a big long pull like the trigger on a Glock pistol. :)

- Very Much in agreement with what you stated & especially the part about " ‘If it doesn’t move – tighten it. If it does move – oil it’." - I myself am guilty of it, especially in my earlier days of ownership & living in a hot & humid climate where parts seem so susceptible to rust, corrosion & the like. - What you have described is "maintenance activity" for the trigger, - I totally relate as I had a Jewell trigger with some black "gunk" that was quite hard to remove, and its obvious that these triggers are fine delicate mechanisms that are built to tight tolerances and the impulse to oil them needs to be avoided. Cleaning them is the best thing we can do for them as well as understanding how they operate. - Thank You for you very good post and insight on this topic. - Ron -
 
Often, the culprit for the gunk is cleaning products dripping into the trigger over time or due to overzealous use. I store my rifles muzzle down as extra insurance.
 
I suspect my issue is from Benchrite bolt lube dripping down into the trigger over the past 5+ years and then exposure to dust at matches causing gunk to build up.

Redrover, I seriously appreciate the quality, first hand experience, detailed responses. I'm going pull it apart when my new trigger spring shows up and do exactly as you said.
 
Ron:

Yes, the Barnard trigger can be sensitive to foreign bodies etc getting into the works, but it doesn’t have a monopoly on this. Target rifle triggers nearly always have multiple levers in them, some just three, and others rather more. They are usually designed to be capable of being adjusted down to let-off weights in the single ounces range, so some parts have very little spring force on them, and this does make them sensitive to getting even slightly gummed up inside. Far more so than, say, a typical two lever hunting rifle type of trigger set to let-off weight of two or three pounds.

Over the years, I have seen a number of postings on internet forums with people complaining about Jewell triggers misbehaving, and then subsequently finding that the problem was due to foreign matter in the works.

About twenty years ago a friend inherited a couple of Grunig and Elmiger target rifles which were probably made at least forty years ago. He decided to keep one of them, and I bought the other from the estate. There was obviously a close tie-up between G & E and Anschutz in those days (maybe there still is) because the triggers on these two rifles, five lever jobs, are almost identical to that on my Anschutz 1408 22 target rifle. Just some minor differences in the top lever/sear arrangement.

For a while, all was well with both rifles, then my friend’s one started failing to reset, exactly in the way Ryan described in his original post. He tried the ‘wash it in spirit’ remedy, but it didn’t help, and as he didn’t feel confidant to dismantle it himself, I did it for him. There was a horrible mess inside of it – blackish coloured gunk stuck all over the inner faces of the housing, the sides of most of the levers, and on some other non-contact parts of the levers. I don’t know what this stuff was, but it was VERY difficult to remove. Solvent and toothbrush made no impression on it at all, and a bronze brush didn’t do much better.

In the end I had to resort to fine abrasives to clean things up. Fortunately, the disengagement ledges and other ‘working’ surfaces of the levers looked clean and shiny, with no discernible burring or damage, so I left them alone. I reassembled the unit, put it back in the rifle and it worked perfectly after some minor adjustments, and is still doing so today. Less than a year later, my G & E rifle did exactly the same thing, and I had to go through all that drill again. Once more, after minor adjustments, it worked perfectly and still does. I don’t pretend to know what had caused the build-up of gunk in these two triggers, but I suspect the previous owner might have belonged to the school of thought ‘If it doesn’t move – tighten it. If it does move – oil it’.


Matt:

I presume that by ‘sear engagement’ you mean overlap of the tip of the middle lever and the ledge on the bottom lever. (which is quite separate from the sear) I suppose an excessive overlap there COULD cause reset problems, but it would also result in a large amount of trigger creep (pre-release movement) which I think most shooters would find unacceptable. The majority of shooters want a clean, crisp, creep free trigger release - not a big long pull like the trigger on a Glock pistol. :)

The adjustment is very fine and it doesn't take much for the middle lever to get hung up, I sell around 200 Barnards a year and see this issue quite often.
Regards
Matt P
 

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