Ball powder for match loads ?

[cjmac]

So is anyone using a ball powder in 223 for match loads ? Im wanting to use ball powder because it flows much better in a measure . Im wanting to get where i can load at the range. Would like to take primed cases , powder , measure , and seating die with arbor press . And my OAL tool

 

[rminut]

you left out the most important piece of info, what kind of matches are you shooting your "match loads" in?

 

[watercam]

Try some and let us know how it works out. Many would love to use better flowing powder. Perhaps one of the Accurate powders might be interesting.

 

[chkunz]

You did not give enough detail, bolt gun, AR, barrel length, twist, etc. But I will tell you that for slow fire in the AR match rifle with a 26 inch 1 in 8 barrel I am getting good results with Accurate 2520 and the 75 AMAX.

 

[CharlieNC]

Cfe223 and power pro 2000Mr are two of my favorites.

 

[cjmac]

Sorry... its a bolt gun with a 1 in 7 twist.

 

[navyrad8r]

BLC(2), TAC, and Wc 846 all have permanent place in my inventory list.
cheers,
Doc

 

[cjmac]

All of my shooting is 300 yards or less. Using 53 grain flat base sierras and 77 grain smk

 

[navyrad8r]

CJ, if you can find it Get some TAC...you might be surprised ;D for both projectiles

 

[savagedasher]

All of my shooting is 300 yards or less. Using 53 grain flat base sierras and 77 grain smk

Are you talking guns with different twist ? I have not see one twist shoot good with both bullets. Larry

 

[cjmac]

Larry its only one gun. Its 1 in 7 twist , i hope it shoots both good . The 35 smk is a little cheaper.. the lats barrel i had was a 1 in 9 . And it loved the 60 grain flat base sierra varmint bullet .

 

[cjmac]

And thay where only about 15$ a box ...

 

[Mozella]

So is anyone using a ball powder in 223 for match loads ? Im wanting to use ball powder because it flows much better in a measure . Im wanting to get where i can load at the range. Would like to take primed cases , powder , measure , and seating die with arbor press . And my OAL tool

Short answer: No.

Longer answer: Weighing individual powder charges and trickling to a precision of .03gr or so is my least favorite part of hand loading. That's why I've done quite a bit of careful testing with my Hornady Lock N Load case activated powder dispenser on my progressive press. I found that it meters well enough to produce consistent sub 1/2 MOA performance and periodic double checking against carefully hand weighed charges don't reveal any real-world improvements in group size for hand weighed charges. I use a 1:9 twist .223 bolt gun shooting mostly 69gr SMK bullets but also a variety of bullets near 55gr as well as some as heavy as 75gr.

CFE223 is the most consistent powder I've tested when it comes to dispensing precision. However, IMR 8208 and VihtaVuori N 133 both meter nearly as accurately. But what's more important is that they both produce significantly smaller group size than the CFE 223, so much so that I sold my last 10 pounds of CFE 223. I just can't justify spending time loading less-than-accurate rounds.

In other words, the ball powders I've tested produce very consistent weights when dispensed but they don't shoot as well as the short stick powders even though the short stick powders vary in weight a little bit more from charge to charge.

I scan my targets and score them with On Target software. Then I study the data eight ways from Sunday with M.S. Excel, so I've gotten pretty good at detecting rather small differences in performance.

Bottom line: If small groups are the goal, then great metering is not the entire answer. Of course, results may vary with your individual technique, gun, equipment, powder, and ...................... well .......... you get the idea. I would say, don't select an inferior powder just because it meters well. But you gotta do careful testing to pick the fly s**t out of the pepper.

 

[Road_Clam]

Probably going to get yelled at but my fav ball powder is good ol' Win 748. Very versatile .308 and 5.56 gas gun powder , meters extremely consistent , the only shortfall with 748 is it tends to be a bit temp sensitive but I've learned to simply tweak my charges accordingly as I have generated a lot of W748 data over the years.

 

[people]

To help with consistent measurements with ball powder here is what I do. I role the bottle end over end slowly then in all other directions. I have found the consistently of thrown charges much more even. Across the course yes BR measure.

 

[XTR]

It will depend on what you are trying to achieve in your loading. If you are shooting service rifle then you are probably fine, at least for a very long time, because the points you drop are not the bullets.

If you are shooting mid range F class, that may be more of an issue. At 600 yards in F-TR you need to shoot 99% to win on most weekends, and if your range shoots 300-500 then that number is is higher. Equipment matters more sooner at mid range because the wind effects are far less than at long range and the target is the same relative size (1MOA 10-ring)

At long range in F-TR I think there is a threshold at about 190 for 20 shots for record. Until you start seeing 190s on a regular basis your wind calls and position are costing you way more than anything you are doing at the loading bench. When your scores start creeping over 190 you have started to get your wind calling and position to the point that you will be able to notice when you drop one to elevation and be able to tell that it wasn't you. Then you can start looking at the things you can do to tighten that up a little.

I don't know of anyone using ball powders at long range. As far as I know, most in F-TR are using Varget, H4895, or maybe VV150 or VV160.

 

[Never Forget]

I've had sub 1/2 moa with H335 and 50 grain vmax in my 223 bolt 9" twist and 1/2 moa in AR's. I haven't tried it with my 69 sierra's yet but will this winter. Pretty fast burn rate, I was using it for non trickled loads for plinking with by 16" AR 8" twist and was shocked at the groups so tried it in the bolt gun and worked great as well even with the 26" barrel. Any matches I have shot using H335 were all steel silhouette varmint, if I were shooting paper matches Varget and H4895 trickled loads are a must IMO.

 

[cjmac]

All verry info ! Iv tested throwing charges with small stick powder before but only on a scale . Was thinking of doing some test loads to see how big of a diffrance there would be . Im sure if it was a dense load there might not be big change in group size . What do yall think ? Is .2 or .3 going to change the group that much with a full case ?

 

[P72]

CFE .223 or IMR 8208?

Real consistent charges or temperature change resistant?

That CFE .223 meters great though my powder measure but when temps work their way from the high 50's to the mid 90's I like IMR 8208 and it does not meter that bad.

Then there is the copper fouling issue.

 

[JarheadAZ]

The last time I used a ball powder, it was with W748 for lighter bullets in .223. When I shot F Open at 1000yd, it was with HDY 140gr A-Max and H-4350 out of a 28" L-W .260 Rem barrel with a SAAMI chamber. I was never a high ranking shooter, but was getting about 1/3 of the way into the 190's.

I had a love affair with the Ramshot products, but my local dealers stopped carrying it, so I went with W748. Another good ball powder is W760 (also marketed as H-414) for the heavier bullets.

These days, most of my needs are served by Varget, IMR-4064, and H-4831SC. I hear a lot of comment about Varget becoming Unobtanium. I just go on my monthly swoop through the LGS providers, keeping my eye out for the above three propellants, and when I strike gold, I buy a bottle. So far, I've managed to keep a couple of bottles ahead of demand. More than that serves me little purpose.

Greg Langelius