Averted a KABOOM!
- Thread starter mousegunner
- Start date
Years ago I was working up loads. According to the load manual, 45.9 grains of 4064 was a max load. So to be safe I started out low and worked up by 1/2 grain increments. I was careful double checking loads and seating depth so what could go wrong?
I started out at 42 grains with 2 rounds each and using good brass. Everything fired fine. Then I fired the 45.0 grain load, still well below the max. The sound was noticeably louder. The gun recoiled so hard that the bolt bruised my hand. The bolt was very hard to lift, the case had a large ejector mark, and the case expanded enough that the primer fell out. I looked at the 44.0 grain and 44.5 grain cases and they all had ejector marks. I should have checked while I was firing them. Why the overpressure? I still don't know but I did learn a lesson while still retaining my eyebrows. I'm much more careful after that.
I started out at 42 grains with 2 rounds each and using good brass. Everything fired fine. Then I fired the 45.0 grain load, still well below the max. The sound was noticeably louder. The gun recoiled so hard that the bolt bruised my hand. The bolt was very hard to lift, the case had a large ejector mark, and the case expanded enough that the primer fell out. I looked at the 44.0 grain and 44.5 grain cases and they all had ejector marks. I should have checked while I was firing them. Why the overpressure? I still don't know but I did learn a lesson while still retaining my eyebrows. I'm much more careful after that.
I'm going to be very interested (and I'm hoping) he OP comes back and comments as to whether powder stuck in the funnel is the likely scenario.
When I do "high volume" loading sessions (.223, any pistol caliber....all my loading is on a single stage) I charge multiple cases (typically 50) and do the flashlight check to see if powder levels are uniform. For precision rifle I charge, trickle-up, pour into the case using a funnel, and seat the bullet immediately. This thread, though, is making me wonder if I should start doing the powder-level-check process for all my loading. I never considered the scenario where powder gets stuck in the funnel.....although I have a somewhat transparent funnel. (As I'm recalling I think it's somewhat transparent.)
One time I charged a .223 case and powder went all over the bench. It turned out some tumbling media (can't recall if it was corncob or crushed walnut) was in the case. Now, every time I charge (regardless of caliber), I look into the "empty" case and confirm I can see the primer cup.
When I do "high volume" loading sessions (.223, any pistol caliber....all my loading is on a single stage) I charge multiple cases (typically 50) and do the flashlight check to see if powder levels are uniform. For precision rifle I charge, trickle-up, pour into the case using a funnel, and seat the bullet immediately. This thread, though, is making me wonder if I should start doing the powder-level-check process for all my loading. I never considered the scenario where powder gets stuck in the funnel.....although I have a somewhat transparent funnel. (As I'm recalling I think it's somewhat transparent.)
One time I charged a .223 case and powder went all over the bench. It turned out some tumbling media (can't recall if it was corncob or crushed walnut) was in the case. Now, every time I charge (regardless of caliber), I look into the "empty" case and confirm I can see the primer cup.
Well got busy on other stuff but in looking at what I was doing yes the powder bridged in the funnel and I missed it.
Normally I pour the powder from the pan to the side of the funnel and let it swirl down and tap the funnel with the pan. I did have some loads that I dumped straight in that got stuck and I tapped the funnel and cleared the stoppage BUT I missed one. One would have been enough but that is why I look into my cases to check the levels not once but twice and even three times. I only do a batch of 25 then seat after I have looked one more time.
When I load Bullseye for my .45 I purposely double charge a case and compare to another to see the difference then I dump both cases back into the hopper and start charging away a small batch at a time then eyeball with my flashlight as many times that I need to so I don't have a doubt.
I single stage on a Rockchucker cause even though progressives are faster I don't need 500 rounds in an hour and too many things going on at once just doesn't sit with me but that's just me. Anyhoo thanks for your comments and thanks for looking.
Normally I pour the powder from the pan to the side of the funnel and let it swirl down and tap the funnel with the pan. I did have some loads that I dumped straight in that got stuck and I tapped the funnel and cleared the stoppage BUT I missed one. One would have been enough but that is why I look into my cases to check the levels not once but twice and even three times. I only do a batch of 25 then seat after I have looked one more time.
When I load Bullseye for my .45 I purposely double charge a case and compare to another to see the difference then I dump both cases back into the hopper and start charging away a small batch at a time then eyeball with my flashlight as many times that I need to so I don't have a doubt.
I single stage on a Rockchucker cause even though progressives are faster I don't need 500 rounds in an hour and too many things going on at once just doesn't sit with me but that's just me. Anyhoo thanks for your comments and thanks for looking.
AckleymanII
Gold $$ Contributor
Part of the solution is to use a powder funnel with a larger hole first time you see the powder bridge in the funnel, then slow down.
Vast majority of reloaders have made mistakes of one kind or another, but powder bridging is among the more dangerous issues to deal with.
Vast majority of reloaders have made mistakes of one kind or another, but powder bridging is among the more dangerous issues to deal with.
Like to many loadings on a set of brass?
That's what caused this catastrophic failure.
My first press was a Dillion 550B in college. I learned real fast that cranking out the ammo and zoning out even for a second was not a wise move. I learned on 300 Win Mag.
I loaded loaded 200 rounds in no time after setting up the machine. I folded a neck over during bullet seating on one side. I had no clue and did not spot it until I went to show off my handy work to a friend and he spotted it right away. Very sobering! For rifle reloading I almost never end up with a powder that does not do a good job filling the case volume. Reloading pistol cartridges though is another ball of wax very easy to put 2 or 3 charges in a case if careless!!
Yep I go slow and stay focused the entire time I am loading no zoning out and I double check each everything because I can! Oh and like almost all young men back then I thought that sort of thing happened to the other guy I was too smart and too skilled to make a mistake like that! LOL Glad I learned that lesson at 20 and got that out of the way with out getting hurt! LOL I have 100% quality control no random sampling for me! I have more time than I have fingers or eye's!
AckleymanII
Gold $$ Contributor
Wonder where that M16 extractor ended up? Looks like the extractor may have been going 1000 fps or more.
Cone bolt...I hope all those gases did not end up in the shooters face!???
I had a case head seperation on a 6 ppc with a cone bolt action, no exhaust ports on the RBLP action. I pulled the trigger, gasses were so great escaping that in a split second, I was sitting on the floor, thinking...."what the heck just happened"???????????? Scared the HELL out of my shooting partner to the left of me.
The cause was that the brass had been fired previously in another barrel with a slightly smaller web dimension, headspace was fine. Brass had been fired 50 times or more in another barrel.
Cone bolt...I hope all those gases did not end up in the shooters face!???
I had a case head seperation on a 6 ppc with a cone bolt action, no exhaust ports on the RBLP action. I pulled the trigger, gasses were so great escaping that in a split second, I was sitting on the floor, thinking...."what the heck just happened"???????????? Scared the HELL out of my shooting partner to the left of me.
The cause was that the brass had been fired previously in another barrel with a slightly smaller web dimension, headspace was fine. Brass had been fired 50 times or more in another barrel.
That's not a catastrophic failure by any stretch of any sane imagination. That's just minor parts breakage.
Sweet story...
Good catch but not sure you can put enough IMR-4895 into a 308 case to blow it up . Your basic safe load of 43gr under a 168gr smk is compressed a little . Not sure how much more powder you will get in there and still be able to seat the bullet to the correct COAL . Still a good catch and you should be proud of your self and your reloading practices in being able to catch that .
I think the issue is more no training rather then poor training . There is not really whole lot to train when it comes to basic shooting and safety . You have the 4 rules and the operation of the firearm . It's not like you're teaching calculus . There's not much to shooting firearms and maybe that's the problem . Pretty much anyone including small children can pick up a firearm and discharge it .
It's not the training IMHO it's the nut behind the wheel excepting it that's the problem . I have friends and or know guys that have grown up shooting but don't shoot much any more and there safety is scary and yet they think they are very safe . I have one friend that wanted to go shoot with me that claims he was around firearms his whole life . So I sent him a few safety videos to watch before I'd take him out . After watching them he said he did not want to go because there were to many rules . WOW !!! and this guy has a collage education . Some people just think they know better then the rest of us .
I think the issue is more no training rather then poor training . There is not really whole lot to train when it comes to basic shooting and safety . You have the 4 rules and the operation of the firearm . It's not like you're teaching calculus . There's not much to shooting firearms and maybe that's the problem . Pretty much anyone including small children can pick up a firearm and discharge it .
It's not the training IMHO it's the nut behind the wheel excepting it that's the problem . I have friends and or know guys that have grown up shooting but don't shoot much any more and there safety is scary and yet they think they are very safe . I have one friend that wanted to go shoot with me that claims he was around firearms his whole life . So I sent him a few safety videos to watch before I'd take him out . After watching them he said he did not want to go because there were to many rules . WOW !!! and this guy has a collage education . Some people just think they know better then the rest of us .
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Lucky Shooter
Gold $$ Contributor
Wondering about safety----unsupported part of case
All the bolt actions I've looked at require some amount of case to be unsupported outside the chamber.
We like to think in terms of "strong actions" but we actually depend on a small amount of brass to hold
it all together.
Does anyone know where to draw the safe/unsafe line for the amount of case outside the chamber ?
I've depended on copying what others have done and have had no problems. I still wonder sometimes.
A. Weldy
All the bolt actions I've looked at require some amount of case to be unsupported outside the chamber.
We like to think in terms of "strong actions" but we actually depend on a small amount of brass to hold
it all together.
Does anyone know where to draw the safe/unsafe line for the amount of case outside the chamber ?
I've depended on copying what others have done and have had no problems. I still wonder sometimes.
A. Weldy
rwj
Gold $$ Contributor
Yikes! Do you have any pictures of the case where it ruptured after it was removed? Did any of the other cases in the lot display signs of impending failure?
No sir I do not. These photos were shared with me buy my friend Mark Skaggs.
I asked about load, and carbon ring.
The response I got was case head separation from to many reloads.
I have a strong feeling that any remaining rounds were pulled down.
Barrel was set back into a dasher, bolt replaced.
Shooter was GTG, with a fresh pair of drawers.
I do the same thing - check w a bright mini LED flashlight, straight down the neck. Check each block of 50 charged cases. Glad you caught the "error". It's a kinda a mindless task - until it isn't.
Lucky Shooter
Gold $$ Contributor
Well Jerry, I hope you can also be a lucky one and can enjoy it as much as I have.
Its been a good ride for me in so many ways-----just hope my luck doesn't run out.
A. Weldy
Its been a good ride for me in so many ways-----just hope my luck doesn't run out.
A. Weldy
carlsbad
Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep.
OK Lucky,
I couldn't resist the joke.
the unsupported case is the portion of the brass that is solid at the base. For example on a remington, the unsupported extension is generally about .140" to .150". This is well bounded by the length of the sold section of the base of the case.
--Jerry
I couldn't resist the joke.
the unsupported case is the portion of the brass that is solid at the base. For example on a remington, the unsupported extension is generally about .140" to .150". This is well bounded by the length of the sold section of the base of the case.
--Jerry
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