Autotrickler V4 Question

[dusterdave173]

So I have been using my new V4 for about 7 months--I love it!
When I load 223 PD loads by the hundreds--I have seen no issue going with .02 under or over
Now I am working to really get my act together on a new 6BR--Should I accept the .02 under over and not blink or should I reject them and go for all dead on the nut. My unit throwing Varget gives me plenty in the over under but that Green light comes on , the book says don't worry --I am just asking what do you guys do? Is there a setting where I can get it to do a little better --do I need to tilt it back when over throwing? Etc
I could wear out a barrel testing a dozen different things--I am just asking how the crowd is moving on this.
So far 30g Varget, 107 Sierra, 450 primer is shooting just great--I am working on seating depth final tests this week--Then a re-check and final tune on powder window for this lot and weather. Pressure was just starting up there at 30.8 and beyond so I am well below at the moment Brass looks very happy
Thanks for helping a rookie

 

[6BRA]

.02 is 1 kernel of powder. Most will accept nodes that are much larger when doing load development. I have seen nodes as wide as .4, up to 20 kernels difference. Everyone wants a wide node for this reason, along with temp/humidity change. Flexibility and still shoot good. Or you can get the exacto knife out and cut kernels if it helps you to feel better. I would weigh primers first.

 

[caffeinated58]

I have same V4 on an Fx120i, been using for about 4 months, loading H4350 @ 41.5, with 140g Berger Hybrids for 6.5CM. I accept the 41.48 / 41.5 / 41.52 (+/- .02) and get between 6 and 7.5 SDs on 20 shot strings using Alpha Munitions OCD brass and CCI BR4 small rifle primers. Rifle is MPA BA with 26" barrel (no brake or suppressor). This load produces 2770 ish fps at 68-78F, 45-50%RH

 

[madmixerman]

When I put a charge weight in the V4, for instance 31.5 grs. I put in 31.51 grs , it usually will give you 31.50 or 31.52 , which is better than putting 31.5 which would allow 31.48 or 31.52.

 

[PatMiles]

I have learned what 1 kernal of Varget weighs on my A&D 120i scale so I take several seconds or so to pluck or add the needed 1 or 2 kernals to be dead nuts on. Might add a few minutes to powdering 70 rounds for a match but I'm in no race to finish dropping powder.
A good percentage of my drops do come out to 31.3 grains which is my target weight.

 

[caffeinated58]

When I put a charge weight in the V4, for instance 31.5 grs. I put in 31.51 grs , it usually will give you 31.50 or 31.52 , which is better than putting 31.5 which would allow 31.48 or 31.52.

Didn't think of that - thanks! Certainly would limit the range down even more. Will give that a try.

 

[saunaking]

When you have to split/add one kernel, it has reached a point where other factors such as neck tension or volume in the case will be more important (not that they aren't important to start with). Our ocd will drive us nuts if we let it.

 

[dusterdave173]

Thanks I appreciate the feedback--Good thinking and tips--just what I needed--Great idea madmixerman!
This load does seem to have that good window--I just wanted to know how tight most were doing.

 

[divingin]

Let's think about that. Your 30 gn Varget charge, a 30.02 overage = .066 percent change (that's 6 one-hundredths of one percent.) You really think that's going to affect velocity in a measurable way? 15 years ago, it probably would have cost close to a thousand dollars for a scale that would resolve that.

 

[ChrisNZ]

When you have to split/add one kernel, it has reached a point where other factors such as neck tension or volume in the case will be more important (not that they aren't important to start with). Our ocd will drive us nuts if we let it.

Here's little experiment the OP could try to see if it really is an issue. Load ten rounds with a charge exactly 0.04grs under your target then another ten exactly 0.04grs above target. There's a high chance the group sizes and elevation will be indistinguishable.

 

[RegionRat]

Now I am working to really get my act together on a new 6BR

If you paint a little more detail in this picture, you will get better advice....

For example, if you are group shooting at 200 yards or less, your advice will change compared to shooting at 300 yards or more. By the time you are at 600 yards shooting from rests, you will be able to see small details with good guns.

Whenever you go out past about 300 yards, and you need to make first round hits with some reasonable percentage rates, then details will begin to matter for preloaded ammo.

What can work in a MidRange sling context, may or may not shoot tight enough for an F-Class context simply due to the fact that the requirement to be competitive between those two games can be a factor of 2X. One game is shot from sling against the standard targets, the other is shot from rests against a revised target where they cut the X ring to 0.5 MOA.

So, if you are not shooting past 200 yards with preloaded ammo, you don't look at things the same way as when in the other context. As a result, your tune windows begin to feel the effects of velocity stats out past 300 yards and your workmanship tolerances would be different depending on the type of game you want to play with your 6 BR. Carry on, YMMV.

 

[dusterdave173]

Regionrat

Good points
I have my first 6BR and have been experiencing the thrill of pretty easy load development and Great results on paper so far. The rifle is shooting really tight groups at 100 --I will use this rifle for play in all areas--I don't see competition yet--The Main reason I bought it is to be my Long Shot prairie dog getter. I have have two 223's set up for the critters but wanted a rifle that would give me a chance to get a 1000 yd shot ( or whatever I can get) this year. I shot 85.5 Bergers in my 223 last year and connected out to 640 but after that wind got the best of it--I tried at a fat one ranged at 1050 range--best I could do was a foot and a half away --wind is the enemy.
I know even if I do whack one way out there that Luck will play a big part but.....sure will be nice to try 700 and out--For Fun! Ya got to have goals LOL
I have been working hard on my reloading skills --I used to build race engines--I can measure and I know about details--the skills cross over very well. I just started annealing--using a bushing die-- mandrels etc and have a brand new barrel that shows a LOT of promise.
I am at a point where I am working to control the things I can-while I continue to improve on the things that are harder to chase. So..the V4 has eliminated the powder deal--my ES has dropped a lot since I got it--The original question is how far should I worry about taking the powder thing. Got my answer --Thanks!
The responses have been very helpful like always on here.
OK guess my next challenge is more consistent neck tension--I am gaining on brass prep --results keep improving.

 

[JFrank]

Here’s a fairly good example of a 6 BRA node, 30.4-31.0 each 2/10 charge increment equals 12 kernels, it’s pretty easy to see that once inside the node that one or even two kernels will not effect the outcome at 500 yards.
Just to add a thought~ if a guy routinely loads on the edge of a node it will be far more sensitive, for example 31.2 will begin to shift out and start shooting poorly.

 

[Bob3700]

I believe that the smaller the case the smaller the window for powder charge variations is.
Shooting PD is one thing, competition shooting is another.
In my 6 mm BRX my window of acceptance is .010 to .020 grain. Do I cut kernels, no. I just reweigh till I hit my target window. Varget n VV140 will weight to that level of fidelity if you are trickling to the final wt.
If you are looking to hit something small out past 600 yds. everything matters.

 

[21PHX]

Let's think about that. Your 30 gn Varget charge, a 30.02 overage = .066 percent change (that's 6 one-hundredths of one percent.) You really think that's going to affect velocity in a measurable way? 15 years ago, it probably would have cost close to a thousand dollars for a scale that would resolve that.

An a thousand dollars was worth….well, a thousand dollars.

 

[RegionRat]

Regionrat

Good points
I have my first 6BR and have been experiencing the thrill of pretty easy load development and Great results on paper so far. The rifle is shooting really tight groups at 100 --I will use this rifle for play in all areas--I don't see competition yet--The Main reason I bought it is to be my Long Shot prairie dog getter. I have have two 223's set up for the critters but wanted a rifle that would give me a chance to get a 1000 yd shot ( or whatever I can get) this year. I shot 85.5 Bergers in my 223 last year and connected out to 640 but after that wind got the best of it--I tried at a fat one ranged at 1050 range--best I could do was a foot and a half away --wind is the enemy.
I know even if I do whack one way out there that Luck will play a big part but.....sure will be nice to try 700 and out--For Fun! Ya got to have goals LOL
I have been working hard on my reloading skills --I used to build race engines--I can measure and I know about details--the skills cross over very well. I just started annealing--using a bushing die-- mandrels etc and have a brand new barrel that shows a LOT of promise.
I am at a point where I am working to control the things I can-while I continue to improve on the things that are harder to chase. So..the V4 has eliminated the powder deal--my ES has dropped a lot since I got it--The original question is how far should I worry about taking the powder thing. Got my answer --Thanks!
The responses have been very helpful like always on here.
OK guess my next challenge is more consistent neck tension--I am gaining on brass prep --results keep improving.

Okay, now it all makes sense.
Shooting at prairie dogs out past 1000 yards is definitely the territory where all the little details will matter.

Even being proficient at first shot kills at 500 or more, requires me to push the ammo to state of the art in order to save some room for mirage, range, and wind.

Besides, one of the easy things to manage is charge tolerance. When properly set up to minimize over-throws (AT V3+IP or V4+IP) it is very easy to mass produce very tight tolerance charges.

The bulk of my PD ammo is progressive loaded (Dillon-thrown charges) and shot under 500 yards, but the stuff for the long shots is a different game. YMMV