Attracting Newcomers to Benchrest Competition

[Fred Bohl]

Guys

I was not intending to be hyper-critical of the webmasters at either NBRSA or IBS. I know the load it can be to keep them up as I am my clubs webmaster and have also been for two other corporate sites before retirement. However, I did intend to be constructive-critical.

The purpose of my posts to this thread has been to find ways to attract newcomers to both IBS and NBRSA benchrest competition. One of those ideas was to get the information needed to attend a match to those interested. That should include EASY access to the relevant data.

The driving concept behind the hyper text transfer protocol,HTTP) is linking and that is what should be making the web easy to use. For example - if in the in the location column of the schedule page the 'Holmen Wi' were made a hyperlink to the page for the range info, most of the needed data would be found and the hyperlink there to the clubs own page would get to the rest.

I will allow that the IBS site deserves a "B" for total content. If all the match hosting range pages were consistent and complete then the content grade would be "A". Put links to the relevant data in the schedule listing and the ease of use grade would go to an "A".

If I have offended anyone I am truly sorry. I believe it is the obligation of all sanctioning bodies and participants in the shooting sports to promote their sports and grow the next generation of participants. If we don't do that, then the sport dies with us and we will have been only takers and not givers.

Wilbur Harris is one of the great givers and definitely has a full plate. I would hope that someone in the NBRSA could step up and share some of the load, particularly for website maintenance.

Al

Thank you for the invitation. I do not compete in hunter benchrest but I will try to come and see how they do it at Holmen.

 

[AlNyhus]

Fred, no need to have a 'legal' Hunter rifle to come and compete at Holmen. There are generally several people with stock or near stock rigs trying trying the water out. Heck, I even remember one member using a 300 Weatherby. Just come and give it a try..the first step is the hardest.

I do understand what has been referenced re: easy access to match and range info. When I started shooting BR in 1998, it was one of the things I found most frustrating.

By the way, I support the idea of a 'novice' class..for lack of a better term. A 'spec. gun' like outlined here would be a great way to go for a BR newcomer and still leave him or her with a great shooting rig if they moved on to other BR classes or took another direction with their competitive shooting. Certainly, Hunter Benchrest has evolved from it's humble roots and is now one of the most the most expensive of the BR rifles to build, with the exception of the rail guns.

I'd go even a bit further if I were King For A Day and writing the rules for a 'spec. gun' ..but that's neither here nor there.

Good shootin' to all. -Al

 

[StephenPerry]

Shooters
I read all this stuff when my Internet was down. First I must say I only shoot short-range BR.
My first comment is leave the rules alone. BR has worked since 1950 with with few rule changes those being the addition on different classes. Second buy either or both a NBRSA or IBS rule book. Third BR has nothing to do with car racing. Fourth take an active role in running a BR shoot. If you do all these things you will be not a consumer but a producer in the shooting world. Whining about existing conditions at a BR shoot only makes you look odd.
As far as getting new shooters the proven ways are to write a good schedule and circulate it, share extra rifles at a BR shoot, and promote the Sport where you practice. I helped many shooters get their start at San Gabriel by working the Main Range helping shooters get on target and explaining what my wind flags were for. We also held 2 BR Schools in 2004 & 2006 and gained many shooters that way. I will do the same at Angeles Range.
Actually some shooters just show up to see what the noise is all about. Make a positive effort.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

 

[Flybuster]

I just would like to say I would be a benchrest shooter. But Im not. I would shoot Long range benchrest in Baker, Or and Hunter class, In La Grande, Or. Except 98% of the matches are on Sunday morning, when I go to church. Shooting is my passion, I really wish they would hold more Saturday matches. I'd be there.

 

[AckleymanII]

this is a really sore subject for me. I shot my first benchrest match in 1969 when I was 15 and placed second. Benchrest matches were more informal with all kinds of equipment showing up. All the matches were heavy on the friendship and less on the competition.

When I moved to Ca. and started shooting BR there, things got very serious and so competitive that some guys would not even talk to anyone else, they would just sit and watch the wind flags. I dove off in the BR world ending up with 8 Hall M's and one Panda,,all in 6 PPC), and bullet making equipment.

I had 4-6 guys that I hung around with, I being much younger than any them. Our friendships were first and second with the guns, loads, flags, scores coming in a distant last. They had the gaul to up and die on me....bastards!

Benchrest competition has got to be a total rat race, to say the least. Benchrest Competition caters to the elite. If you want to start growing your sport, the stop being so serious.

For instance, look at Cowboy Action Shooting, that is about the most haywire competition that one could dream up. They dress up like idiots and shoot very crude guns and extremely crude targets. The key is the friendships, low key competition, and having fun collecting, buying, and shooting guns. They laugh and have fun with the costumes and shoot some really old and/or models of crude guns.It is the fastest growing shooting sport.

If you want to encourage the growth of the Benchrest Sport, then make it attractive to a guy that can only afford a varmint rifle and he can come to a "match" for the fun of being with other shooters.

Registered Benchrest Matches are anything but fun, draw for bench, rotate bench after a match, clean your rifle and load in between matches, about as much fun as hemorrhoids.

If you want to make a sport grow, then make it fun! Benchrest competition is a perfect example of taking something that was fun, like getting a bunch of guys together to shoot, then making it so competitive that the sport kills itself.

When you have to have $5000 to spend on equipment, Shooting is no longer the focus of this shooting sport, competition and all the finite micro management is the sport now.

Create a wholesome atmosphere where friendship and a focus on having fun is the key and your sport will grow, otherwise, it deserves to die. Personality types that just look for a venue to compete are a real drag to be around! WAKE UP! There in lies the key to what is really wrong with the Benchrest sport today!

In order to change the Benchrest game, you are going to have to change the classes to where the average varmint hunter and sport shooter have a chance to shoot without feeling as if he has gone to snob ville. Many, many guys have no place to hunt, but own a lot of rifles...too bad they don't have a fun match to go and shoot in, eh?

The last time I shot in a Registered BR match, it was the most stressful "FUN" thing that I ever have done. I hit the wall, sold all the Hall M's and kept the Panda. I promised God that if he let me live a long life, I would not be stupid enough to ever enter a registered BR match again, unless they make it fun.

The informal BR matches were always fun, and you went away with a feeling of being uplifted through comradery. Modern benchrest shooting is an extension of a rat race, only a very, very few will find the rat race exhilarating.

 

[tightneck]

this is a really sore subject for me. I shot my first benchrest match in 1969 when I was 15 and placed second. Benchrest matches were more informal with all kinds of equipment showing up. All the matches were heavy on the friendship and less on the competition.

When I moved to Ca. and started shooting BR there, things got very serious and so competitive that some guys would not even talk to anyone else, they would just sit and watch the wind flags. I dove off in the BR world ending up with 8 Hall M's and one Panda,,all in 6 PPC), and bullet making equipment.

I had 4-6 guys that I hung around with, I being much younger than any them. Our friendships were first and second with the guns, loads, flags, scores coming in a distant last. They had the gaul to up and die on me....bastards!

Benchrest competition has got to be a total rat race, to say the least. Benchrest Competition caters to the elite. If you want to start growing your sport, the stop being so serious.

For instance, look at Cowboy Action Shooting, that is about the most haywire competition that one could dream up. They dress up like idiots and shoot very crude guns and extremely crude targets. The key is the friendships, low key competition, and having fun collecting, buying, and shooting guns. They laugh and have fun with the costumes and shoot some really old and/or models of crude guns.It is the fastest growing shooting sport.

If you want to encourage the growth of the Benchrest Sport, then make it attractive to a guy that can only afford a varmint rifle and he can come to a "match" for the fun of being with other shooters.

Registered Benchrest Matches are anything but fun, draw for bench, rotate bench after a match, clean your rifle and load in between matches, about as much fun as hemorrhoids.

If you want to make a sport grow, then make it fun! Benchrest competition is a perfect example of taking something that was fun, like getting a bunch of guys together to shoot, then making it so competitive that the sport kills itself.

When you have to have $5000 to spend on equipment, Shooting is no longer the focus of this shooting sport, competition and all the finite micro management is the sport now.

Create a wholesome atmosphere where friendship and a focus on having fun is the key and your sport will grow, otherwise, it deserves to die. Personality types that just look for a venue to compete are a real drag to be around! WAKE UP! There in lies the key to what is really wrong with the Benchrest sport today!

In order to change the Benchrest game, you are going to have to change the classes to where the average varmint hunter and sport shooter have a chance to shoot without feeling as if he has gone to snob ville. Many, many guys have no place to hunt, but own a lot of rifles...too bad they don't have a fun match to go and shoot in, eh?

The last time I shot in a Registered BR match, it was the most stressful "FUN" thing that I ever have done. I hit the wall, sold all the Hall M's and kept the Panda. I promised God that if he let me live a long life, I would not be stupid enough to ever enter a registered BR match again, unless they make it fun.

The informal BR matches were always fun, and you went away with a feeling of being uplifted through comradery. Modern benchrest shooting is an extension of a rat race, only a very, very few will find the rat race exhilarating.

I find BR competition extremely FUN and COMPETITIVE. And that is what BR is all about. There are many shooting sports that are not so competitive, and less demanding than Benchrest. If you don't enjoy the competitive nature of BR, then you probably wouldn't enjoy ANY truly competitive sport, and thats OK too. But don't try to change BR because you find the competition too demanding or not as FUN as you might like. Find an less competitive shooting sport and have a ball...

 

[AckleymanII]

Three new classes would completly change the spirit of a BR match, Bipod factory sporter, Bipod factory Varmint, AR-15, rear bag allowed,,Factory = 5000 + production per year of a model).

While you are trying to encourage newcomers, broaden your base at the same time.

A person's mind is like a parachutte, it has to be open to work properly.

 

[Fred Bohl]

Keith Chandler

I'm sorry to hear the circumstances that drove you away from Benchrest competition. I left competition in the early sixties for the lack of time and funds for the travel do to college completion and career start up. When I have been tempted to return several times over the last 40 years I have seen too many of the same things that have driven you away.

I pursue shooting sports first as recreation and more lately as I have reached retirement as a stimulus to my mind and body to maintain focus and coordination.

I originally started this thread to promote discussion on how to attract a younger generation to short range,100 & 200 yard) bench rest to replace the "good old boys" that keep dying and the seriously anal-retentive that have resisted anything to change "the way we've always done it" for the last 30 years.

Maybe your suggestion to focus on having fun first is a good idea Keith

-------------

Al Nyhus

Sorry I could not make it to Holmen and get to meet you face to face. How did the match go?

 

[rayjay]

Last Monday I inadvertently ended up in a meeting between one of our club members and the club manager [ Bill, who also puts on the BR matches ]. Bill had no idea what the member wanted to discuss. Turns out it was BR !!! He says he has 10 or 12 shooters very interested in a factory rifle / factory ammo class. Since I have been trying to jump start a 'production' rifle category at our club it was a happy coincidence that I just happened to be there.

We had a long discussion about our club BR formats and basically told the member to bring his shooters out for the June event and we would sign them up and give them all the help they need for their first BR match. It will be interesting see how many show up and how it all works out.

I had put forth such a proposal here or on other forums and basically got shot in the backside. After competing in 3 club events while radically upgrading my rifle I now know that such a class is of no interest to me but I can see how it would be appealing to those that don't reload. Only time will tell if the Gold Metal Match or Black Hill Match ammo gives good enough results. Also there is the expense of such high quality loaded ammo.

We are also going to do a BR seminar at our club picnic next month so maybe this will generate some interest.

 

[AlNyhus]

Benchrest competition has got to be a total rat race, to say the least. Benchrest Competition caters to the elite. If you want to start growing your sport, then stop being so serious.

When you have to have $5000 to spend on equipment, Shooting is no longer the focus of this shooting sport, competition and all the finite micro management is the sport now.

Personality types that just look for a venue to compete are a real drag to be around!

In order to change the Benchrest game, you are going to have to change the classes to where the average varmint hunter and sport shooter have a chance to shoot without feeling as if he has gone to snob ville. Many, many guys have no place to hunt, but own a lot of rifles...too bad they don't have a fun match to go and shoot in, eh?

The informal BR matches were always fun, and you went away with a feeling of being uplifted through comradery. Modern benchrest shooting is an extension of a rat race, only a very, very few will find the rat race exhilarating.

Keith...sorry to hear that your BR experience has left you with such bitterness toward an entire hobby and the many, many fine people that enjoy it.

Maybe it's a regional thing? I've been competing formally for 8 years now and am happy to say that the group of individuals I compete with in my part of the country are some of the nicest, most friendly persons I've ever had the privledge of associating with. Being from South Dakota, I shoot primarily in Iowa, Wisconsin and to a lesser extent, Kansas. But I've traveled to New York, Pennsylvania and Georgia to compete in matches as well and have met many fine people in all parts of the country. I will say that as a group, the Score shooters seem to have a different attitude than the Group shooters. Not less competitive..not better or worse..just more relaxed at the matches. Maybe that's one reason that Score shooting has really taken off in the past years?

I fully support the concept of providing a 'start up' class, if you will, to introduce new shooters to BR. It should be fun with minimal rules..sort of a 'run what you brung' affair with less focus on equipment and more on learning the basics of BR shooting. Hopefully, this would encourage people to advance to the more formal classes. Hunter class was originally this class....and perhaps could be again.

But all forms of competitive shooting require focus..even Cowboy Action shooting. If the people we compete with don't care whether they win or lose, how can we really measure our success? Winning a tournament where nobody is striving to do their best would be a pretty hollow victory. I'd rather finish 20th in a 60 shooter match against people that are giving it their all than win a 10 shooter match where nobody cares if they win or lose. Yes, you always need to balance good behavior with a competitive spirit. But that's no different than most things in life.

If you're ever in our area when we're having a match, let me know. I think you'd find us a pretty fun and competitive bunch to hang with. :thumb:

Good shootin', Keith. -Al

 

[JER]

When I considered which rifle sport to enter into back in 2003, Benchrest was not even considered even if everything had been free.

I was not,and still am not) interested in a game where the object is to isolate the rifle from the shooter as much as possible, where shot placement is secondary, and where the shooting position bears no relevance to practical usage.

 

[JER]

And by the way, when shooting prone, sittting and standing, do you really break a serious sweat?

The physical and mental strain of a difficult,switching winds) prone match at 600 or 1000 yards will leave you very tired at the end of the day.

Appearances are extremely deceiving in prone shooting. Same goes for smallbore prone.

Benchrest is a test of equipment. Conventional,slings and apertures) position shooting is a test of the rifleman.

 

[tightneck]

When I considered which rifle sport to enter into back in 2003, Benchrest was not even considered even if everything had been free.

I was not,and still am not) interested in a game where the object is to isolate the rifle from the shooter as much as possible, where shot placement is secondary, and where the shooting position bears no relevance to practical usage.

Please tell us why you feel that your sport of choice is better than another..PLEASE PLEASE. More commentary from a shooter that hasn't competed in BR. Do benchrest shooters come into your threads and let you know how lowly your rifle is because it isn't as accurate as a BR rifle? Does everyone have to have the exact same interests and needs? These threads are ridiculous.

 

[JER]

You were asking how to attract new shooters.

I was telling you the reasons why I wasn't attracted.

Feel free to do with that information as you wish.

 

[tightneck]

You were asking how to attract new shooters.

I was telling you the reasons why I wasn't attracted.

Feel free to do with that information as you wish.

When did I ask how to attract new shooters?

 

[JER]

Well then, would you mind posting a photocopy of your NRA classification card from any prone discipline so I can see if you have the qualifications to call BS on my description of the stress of a prone match?

 

[JER]

You were asking how to attract new shooters.

I was telling you the reasons why I wasn't attracted.

Feel free to do with that information as you wish.

When did I ask how to attract new shooters?

Maybe you did not ask. But attracting new shooters is the title of this thread, last time I looked.

 

[tightneck]

Look, The reason there are so many shooting sports is that people are different. Just because YOU don't find BR attractive doesn't make it less of a sport than highpower or vice versa. I have many friends that shoot highpower and smallbore, and I have respect for the sports they compete in. Can't all shooters just enjoy what they do and not worry about what others enjoy? Apparently not.

 

[tightneck]

What I am calling [questionable] is that BR is simply an equipment race. You can put the very best shooting rifle into the hands of someone who can't decifer the wind or mirage, and he doesn't have a prayer. You will also find that some absolutely awsome shooters have never been caught in any equipment race. These guys show up at a match with a rifle that was built 20+ years ago and proceed to kick butt with it.

 

[tightneck]

Speaking of equipment races though, how much does a new T2K run? $4500, sounds like any average shooter can afford one of those.