there has been much discussion on what the rules are and what is needed to convert a rifle action into a pistol...i have contacted the ATF and they are supposed to get back with me tomorrow on this...i have decided to move this topic to a new one and stop hijacking another subject...lol...feel free to chime in on anything about this..
ATF Rules on making a rifle a pistol
- Thread starter fredhorace77
- Start date
When I bought a non-designated action I was told by my FFL to register as a rifle as that was what I was building and if I wanted to change it later to a handgun I could just re-register it as a handgun. Just what I was told....
A Pistol can become a rifle at anytime, a rifle cannot become a pistol without paperwork.
NorCalMikie
Gold $$ Contributor
Look on the WWW. for "BATF July 25, 2011" and see for yourself. It's in writing. If the barrel is 16" long and the OAL is 26" long, it's "STILL A RIFLE". (no matter what it looks like)
You have to read it more than one time and decide for yourself. Mine are rifles! 8) I also keep a printed copy of the ruling in my range bag, just in case.
The ruling pertains to the TC but it's the "measurements that count". 16" barrel and OAL of 26" still makes it a rifle.
Be REAL interesting to hear exactly what the BATF has to say on the subject.
You have to read it more than one time and decide for yourself. Mine are rifles! 8) I also keep a printed copy of the ruling in my range bag, just in case.
The ruling pertains to the TC but it's the "measurements that count". 16" barrel and OAL of 26" still makes it a rifle.
Be REAL interesting to hear exactly what the BATF has to say on the subject.
so far one field officer told me it had to do with what the weapon was originally designed as...if it was born a rifle then in order to make it a pistol i would have to do a ATF Form 4 which will turn that rifle action to a registered pistol with a 5 dollar fee...but then he referred me to the main office in washington...when i asked them...i got transfered to bout 100 different people..then was told they would call me back tomorrow to give me a final answer...i think the laws are so confusing that even the ATF doesnt understand them...when i mentioned i was building a Ruger Charger Pistol off of a Ruger 10/22 rifle action...the lady was like "what?" what is a ruger charger...i said ill just email you a pic of it rather than try to explain it to you...she said...ok that would be great...so well see what they have to tell me tomorrow
NorCalMikie
Gold $$ Contributor
The Ruger "Charger" was born as a "pistol". It's still a pistol no matter how long the barrel is.
The Ruger 10/22 is a rifle and will always be.
My understanding of the BATF ruling is, if the barrel is at least 16" long and the OAL of the rig is at least 26" long, it's still a rifle.
You add a shorter than 16" long barrel and it becomes a SBR (short barreled rifle) any you end up with an illeagal rifle and you're then dealing with the BATF.
Sounds like the BATF isn't sure what they've ruled on and how to sort it out? ???.
The real question is, "What makes it a rifle"? If it has a center or rear grip pistol style stock and the measurements match the BATF ruling of 16" barrel and OAL of 26", is it still a rifle?
The way I understand the ruling, it's still a rifle.
Somebody correct me if I'am wrong. (in writing from the BATF)
The Ruger 10/22 is a rifle and will always be.
My understanding of the BATF ruling is, if the barrel is at least 16" long and the OAL of the rig is at least 26" long, it's still a rifle.
You add a shorter than 16" long barrel and it becomes a SBR (short barreled rifle) any you end up with an illeagal rifle and you're then dealing with the BATF.
Sounds like the BATF isn't sure what they've ruled on and how to sort it out? ???.
The real question is, "What makes it a rifle"? If it has a center or rear grip pistol style stock and the measurements match the BATF ruling of 16" barrel and OAL of 26", is it still a rifle?
The way I understand the ruling, it's still a rifle.
Somebody correct me if I'am wrong. (in writing from the BATF)
i think you may be thinking of two different situations...what im trying to do is take an action from a ruger 10/22 rifle...strip the action off...put a 10" barrel on it and a pistol stock....not a pistol grip stock but an actual pistol stock like the charger. from what i have gathered is that if the action and serial number was born a rifle then you take that action only and put a barrel on it that is shorter than 16" and a pistol stock it now becomes a pistol and you have to also register it with the ATF. If you take a rifle with a sholder mounted stock on it and cut the barrel less than 16" then you have to register that as a short barreled rifle with the ATF. Which would be the 2nd situation that one might encounter. To my understanding if you take a pistol and change it to a rifle shoulder mounted stock with a barrel longer than 16" then there is nothing you have to do concerning the ATF.
NorCalMikie
Gold $$ Contributor
It's all the same thing.
If you take a Ruger 10/22 rifle action and put a 10" barrel on it, it becomes a SBR. You're asking for trouble unless it's reregistered as a pistol and the paper work is done through the BATF. The stock won't make any difference. It's still a SBR. If you cut the barrel down to 16", it's still a rifle.
No different than taking a rifle action and using it to build a pistol. It's the barrel length and OAL that makes the difference.
Clear as mud huh? ??? :
The "shorter than 16" are the key words.
Any length rifle barrel on a pistol action is OK. (Remington XP100)
Look at one and tell my how you can tell the difference?
The Ruger"Charger" is marked as such. The Charger is a pistol even it the BATF doesn't know that.
And, I will be really surprised if you hear back from the BATF tomorrow. You may, but I'am thinking it will take a bit of time.
Keep your fingers crossed for a speedy reply. ;D
If you take a Ruger 10/22 rifle action and put a 10" barrel on it, it becomes a SBR. You're asking for trouble unless it's reregistered as a pistol and the paper work is done through the BATF. The stock won't make any difference. It's still a SBR. If you cut the barrel down to 16", it's still a rifle.
No different than taking a rifle action and using it to build a pistol. It's the barrel length and OAL that makes the difference.
Clear as mud huh? ??? :
The "shorter than 16" are the key words.Any length rifle barrel on a pistol action is OK. (Remington XP100)
Look at one and tell my how you can tell the difference?
The Ruger"Charger" is marked as such. The Charger is a pistol even it the BATF doesn't know that.
And, I will be really surprised if you hear back from the BATF tomorrow. You may, but I'am thinking it will take a bit of time.
Keep your fingers crossed for a speedy reply. ;D
NorCalMikie said:It's all the same thing.
If you take a Ruger 10/22 rifle action and put a 10" barrel on it, it becomes a SBR. You're asking for trouble unless it's reregistered as a pistol and the paper work is done through the BATF. The stock won't make any difference. It's still a SBR. If you cut the barrel down to 16", it's still a rifle.
No different than taking a rifle action and using it to build a pistol. It's the barrel length and OAL that makes the difference.
Clear as mud huh? ??? :
Any length rifle barrel on a pistol action is OK. (Remington XP100)
Look at one and tell my how you can tell the difference?
The Ruger"Charger" is marked as such. The Charger is a pistol even it the BATF doesn't know that.
And, I will be really surprised if you hear back from the BATF tomorrow. You may, but I'am thinking it will take a bit of time.
Keep your fingers crossed for a speedy reply. ;D
This statement may be true on the Federal Level, but the State Laws may counter this, as in New York due to the Sullivan Act. If it's Registered with the State as a Pistol/handgun, or as an action for a pistol/handgun, no matter what length barrel you install or stock it's still a handgun and it still has to be Registered and on your Pistol Permit as such. I've tried to import one of the above mentioned actions to build off, that's when I found out the State Law.
NorCalMikie
Gold $$ Contributor
Mike:
I'am thinking more on the Federal level. State regulations in your case are a different story. : In New York, it must be the water? Trust me, California isn't much better.
My Savage Model 10 "rifle action" has a 26" barrel and sits in a Benchrest thumbhole stock. It's a rifle, no question about it.
Now, if I take that same action, swap the 26" barrel with a 16"+ barrel, in the same stock, is still a rifle? It is, because the barrel is still a legal limit of 16"+.
If I swap that 16"+ barrel with say a 10" barrel in the same stock, that makes it a illegal SBR (short barreled rifle). That's where the BATF (Federal) regs come into play.
And, if you swap the 16"+ barrel with a 10" barrel, you stand the chance of spending some time in the slammer with Bubba as a cell mate.(Who thinks you're real good looking)
If I take that same 26" barreled Savage action and place it into a center or rear grip pistol style stock, is it still a rifle?
More questions than answers. Is it the barrel measurement that makes it a pistol or is it the style of the stock, or both?
The controversy rages on, Mike.
I'am thinking more on the Federal level. State regulations in your case are a different story. :
In New York, it must be the water? Trust me, California isn't much better.My Savage Model 10 "rifle action" has a 26" barrel and sits in a Benchrest thumbhole stock. It's a rifle, no question about it.
Now, if I take that same action, swap the 26" barrel with a 16"+ barrel, in the same stock, is still a rifle? It is, because the barrel is still a legal limit of 16"+.
If I swap that 16"+ barrel with say a 10" barrel in the same stock, that makes it a illegal SBR (short barreled rifle). That's where the BATF (Federal) regs come into play.
And, if you swap the 16"+ barrel with a 10" barrel, you stand the chance of spending some time in the slammer with Bubba as a cell mate.(Who thinks you're real good looking)
If I take that same 26" barreled Savage action and place it into a center or rear grip pistol style stock, is it still a rifle?
More questions than answers. Is it the barrel measurement that makes it a pistol or is it the style of the stock, or both?
The controversy rages on, Mike.
My class 3 dealer told me that if its a virgin receiver such as an AR platform that it can be made into either. Just as long as it complies with short barrel an no stock.
pdhntr
Silver $$ Contributor
snowpro440 said:
It was my understanding that taxes are paid on the manufacture of firearms. The BATF recognizes "Pistols" (pistols and revolvers) and "Other Firearms" (rifles, shotguns, machine guns, etc).
Taxes are different for Pistols and Other Firearms. The manufacturer must decide and record the classification at the time of manufacture and then pay the according tax. (in other words, the action has to be a "Pistol" or "Other Firearm")
And this is why the statements,"once a pistol, always a pistol" and "what was it born as" make sense.
As far as reregistering a rifle to become a pistol, I don't have a clue.
Jim
well said..
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