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ATF Policy re Cannabis Use and Firearms Ownership

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People wonder why everything's falling apart. It's because they're simply no moral stand taken on any kind of behavior anymore. Anything goes. "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" seems to be the underlying thread in the American culture now.

The standard should be, at least IMO: do what you will, but nobody's got immunity from actual harms or manifest material threat of harm to others.

So, commit your act, but you're responsible for the negative harmful demonstrable impacts upon others.

As with air use, which doesn't include the poisoning of the air others will breathe (as with, say, doing a "burn barrel" but tossing any old thing [including plastics] into it).

As with water use, but disregarding the fact that water flows downstream, into the sewer system, into the water table, etc.

As with driving a motor vehicle. Which essentially is no "public" issue on private lands, where none of the public is inflicted upon with unreasonable noise, concern, crash impact (ie, on a big ranch or farm, where licensing isn't required, where "traffic law" doesn't apply).

As with sound impact, which if done in immediate proximity of others harms their hearing or expected reasonable degree of peace; as with arms, the right of which doesn't cover commission of armed robbery or murder.

Once was, this is how things were. People were free to freely exercise their liberties. But they were held liable for demonstrably provable negative impacts upon others.

In the U.S., we've become one big social-reengineering experiment. Welcome to the Petri dish. Jump in ... the water's fine.
 
The standard should be, at least IMO: do what you will, but nobody's got immunity from actual harms or manifest material threat of harm to others.

So, commit your act, but you're responsible for the negative harmful demonstrable impacts upon others.

As with air use, which doesn't include the poisoning of the air others will breathe (as with, say, doing a "burn barrel" but tossing any old thing [including plastics] into it).

As with water use, but disregarding the fact that water flows downstream, into the sewer system, into the water table, etc.

As with driving a motor vehicle. Which essentially is no "public" issue on private lands, where none of the public is inflicted upon with unreasonable noise, concern, crash impact (ie, on a big ranch or farm, where licensing isn't required, where "traffic law" doesn't apply).

As with sound impact, which if done in immediate proximity of others harms their hearing or expected reasonable degree of peace; as with arms, the right of which doesn't cover commission of armed robbery or murder.

Once was, this is how things were. People were free to freely exercise their liberties. But they were held liable for demonstrably provable negative impacts upon others.

In the U.S., we've become one big social-reengineering experiment. Welcome to the Petri dish. Jump in ... the water's fine.

When Target puts transgender dolls on the shelf for children, I think someone is crapping in the well.

I think the analogy rings true. The "live and let live" thing does not always hold true. You can't crap in your own well because that is your "right".... because your well is attached to your neighbor's well. Degeneration is not a successful long term strategy. One person's self harm will eventually be visited on the whole.

The normalization of drugs (and I do NOT consider the modern farmed THC to be a "soft drug" anymore) will eventually have broad reaching effects.

When I was growing up there might have been 2 bars on the entire east side of Tulsa. And you had to be member to belong to those. Christians did not tolerate a bar every 600 yards. Now? I am surprised they don't sell beer next to every school. They did build a Hustler store right across the street from the Bishop Kelly Catholic School. No one at the city said a word. Neither did the media.
 
When Target puts transgender dolls on the shelf for children, I think someone is crapping in the well.

I would suggest that feelings of offendedness, though, are something distinctly different from harm.

Of course, there's a strong case that can be made for, say, separation of "sensitive" items from age-inappropriate spaces. Such as introduction to sex and sexualized items in places where children under a certain age are all but certain to come across them. (All the recent grousing about "banning books" when all it really is is placing age-inappropriate materials in age-appropriate libraries for older, teen (and perhaps pre-teen) young adults.



I think the analogy rings true. The "live and let live" thing does not always hold true. You can't crap in your own well because that is your "right".... because your well is attached to your neighbor's well.

If it's indeed nearby, even "attached", then there's a case to be made. Not, if not. The same ought to be true of anything else one can think of, when attempting to gauge whether there's legitimate demonstrable harm.


Degeneration is not a successful long term strategy. One person's self harm will eventually be visited on the whole.

Who's to say what's "degeneracy"? Sticky subject, as though a single standard can be agreed upon.

The normalization of drugs (and I do NOT consider the modern farmed THC to be a "soft drug" anymore) will eventually have broad reaching effects.

There certainly ought to be a way to hold people to account for impairment instead of the arbitrary wholesale declarations now done. It's not as though alcohol or cannabis has immediate impacts as gross as PCP, cocaine, heroin or a dozen other such items. Makes much more sense to attempt an impairment level of distinction in the law (as is done with alcohol; DWI and it's on you, for example).

When I was growing up there might have been 2 bars on the entire east side of Tulsa. And you had to be member to belong to those. Christians did not tolerate a bar every 600 yards. Now? I am surprised they don't sell beer next to every school.

Of course, one has to ask: by what authority, outright prohibition?

Then again, the empowering little device gov't has is the business permission slip. Don't get licensed?, then you don't get approved for operation. Whether constructing a "porno" or "hooka" shop next to the elementary school, or running an ice cream parlor on Main St.


I wish it were simpler. Freedom can be a bit messy. But the U.S. was crafted a bit differently. On the instant ALL rights and responsibilities and power got wrested from old King George III's tight fist, the people of America held them all unto themselves. And they, then, crafted constitutions flatly protecting those rights, even noting the major point of such creation (of self-governance structures) was that protection. And, to my knowledge, the recorded history does not proclaim the people agreed to hand them over (nor their control) wholesale to the hired help.

Still, within the legitimate constraints, communities and states have every right to decide as a people what shall not be tolerated. So long as the reasoning for it is justifiable and can be shown to be so.
 
Read earlier that Hunter's legal team is floating the idea of defending him on the grounds that the 2'nd amendment should invalidate the controlled substance prohibition of buying a gun. Wouldn't it be ironic if this all got tossed out because of one of the biggest anti's crackhead son.
Painting with a broad brush, subject to legal scrutiny. And someone with deep pockets who wants to argue it in the courts…

You could almost argue that the 5th amendment covers one from self incrimination.

The 2nd amendment has no qualifier or disqualifier concerning cannabis.

And the 4th amendment prohibits the search and seizure of firearms in relation to the question on the form.

In a constitutional republic I would think the constitution sets precedence. But alas….

Just sayin. Interesting thread even with the thread drift.
 
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