At what pressure will gunpowder ignite????

[rbertalotto]

Here is the situation:

AR-15 / LIVE/LOADED 223 cartridge stuck in chamber / 52 g Sierra bullet / 24.5G Vit133 / Fed SR primer

My gunsmith tried to force it out from the muzzle with a brass rod as there is no way to grab the case from the breech. Using more force than he usually would, the case would not budge. When attempted to pry it out from the breech, the rim was ripped off the case.

He wants to use a press to force it out with a brass rod from the muzzle.

He is concerned that with a near zero air space in this cartridge, the bullet will be forced into the case, exerting pressure on the gunpowder. Too much pressure and the gunpowder will go off.

My question to the board, does anyone have any idea how much pressure it would take to set off smokeless powder under this circumstance?

I tried to call Hogdon but they are closed until 1/3

Any other ideas to get this cartridge out is appreciated. It has been standing on end with Kroil oil through the muzzle but it still will not budge with moderate force.

 

[STS]

Hydraulic pressure from a grease gun is the safest way. It's well documented if you search it out. Good luck.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Based on my stays at a Holiday Inn Express....and from seeing kernels squashed flat and cut, I really doubt there is an issue. I can't see why a column of kernels would act any different than a single kernel caught in a die or between bolt and barrel other than a lot more energy, if I'm wrong. Never hurts to be safe, though.

fwiw, I've done exactly what he wants to do with never a problem. I've done them using a brass rod cut just a bit longer than the bbl, using the tailstock on a lathe.

 

[david kieffer]

Is the muzzle threaded ?? If so make a cap and install a grease zerk and pump away . I would cover or rap the action with a tarp or blanket and take it outside . please be careful and good luck.

 

[PigButtons]

Just to try it out. Take ten kernels of powder and put it on an anvil, solid concrete, or similar surface. Take an 8 lb sledge hammer and smack the powder. If it goes bang, there might be a problem. I've never seen it though. Take a primer and do the same thing and there is a definite bang, but not much more than a cap from back in the cap gun days. In order for primers to ignite there are very volatile chemicals and finely ground glass and specific geometry of cup and anvil. Auto ignition because of pressure is not easily accomplished. Auto ignition of a solid due to pressure is magic.

But caution is always to be advised, and I could be all wet as well.

 

[Dub]

I would wager (meaning there is still risk involved) that pressure alone will not ignite powder

 

[Cemetery21]

If you are going to thread a grease gun onto an AR barrel, you might loose some pressure at the gas port before the round is pushed out. :0

 

[JohnKielly]

I would wager (meaning there is still risk involved) that pressure alone will not ignite powder

... however percussion on the case with a rod from the muzzle might in extreme circumstances cause the primer to ignite.

 

[r bose]

I would wager (meaning there is still risk involved) that pressure alone will not ignite powder

I disagree. Was at a XTC match where a competitor had a stuck, live round in the chamber of an AR. He put a 1 piece cleaning rod down the muzzle and started to tap on it. After a few hits, the powder ignited and a big puff of smoke came out of the opened action. No it didn't explode but it did burn. He had pushed the projectile into the brass completely and the powder burned as if you lit it with a match. He's a very lucky guy.

 

[Richard Coody]

Well I doubt if that powder will explode

If it were me I would just put that barrel in a vice, make sure both ends of the barrel were.pointed in a safe direction and hammer away. Of course I drink.tap water and vacuum up lost primers and powder.

 

[dellet]

I don't know the exact pressure, or if it matters that you will be pushing on the bullet end, instead of the side of the case, but I know that just about any cartridge laid on a flat rock goes off when another 10 pound rock is dropped from shoulder height of the average 10-15 year old boy.

 

[jelenko]

But, is that because the primer went off first?

 

[Dub]

I tried hammering rimfire rounds on a concrete floor at 5 years old but survived. None went off...

 

[Richard Coody]

Shotgun shell with a ball bearing taped to the primer. Wrap a piece of paper around the shot end like a badminton birdie. Throw high where it lands on concrete. Hit the dirt.

 

[PigButtons]

Some of ya'll are starting to scare me.

 

[Adam in WI]

Heck, sounds like my kind of people lol.

 

[CJ6]

... however percussion on the case with a rod from the muzzle might in extreme circumstances cause the primer to ignite.

PERFECT ANSWER RIGHT THERE... I've seen this happen.

 

[rbertalotto]

PERFECT ANSWER RIGHT THERE... I've seen this happen.

That's why the gunsmith wants to use a press.....

 

[rbertalotto]

But if the primer went off, with a bullet and rod in the bore, wouldn't the unsupported end of the case blow out first?

 

[MagnumManiac]

The ONLY safe method is to use grease.
You pack the barrel about 1/2 full then with a rod close to the land width and flat ended, you tap it, and the grease does the work.
The primer igniting is a real danger if the bullet is impacted directly, the grease will only force around the bullet, it may push back into the case, but seeing as there is no direct force from the rod, it is rare that the cartridge will detonate.
Hope this helps.

Cheers.