Dusty Stevens
Shiner
No more than 100. You should know while fireforming if its an honest barrel, needs fine tuning or will shoot anything
At what point do you give up on a barrel?
- Thread starter MikeMcCasland
- Start date
I gave up on a barrel after 437 rounds. I never could get it to shoot acceptable groups with my bullets (made by me) and preferred powder(s).
I sold it (cheap) to a friend who needed a "bargain-priced" barrel (with full disclosure), and he used different bullets and powders in it. He won (and placed 2nd and 3rd in) quite a few NBRSA matches with that barrel before it was finally shot out.
That barrel experience taught me that most premium barrels can be MADE to shoot well - IF you have the time and patience enough to feed it what it likes! If you don't - just do what Tony Boyer does - buy a dozen or so at a time, have them chambered and shoot a few different loads. Keep the ones that shoot well for you, and sell the ones that don't shoot to your expectations at reduced prices!
Of course, Tony's method takes more money than I have to spend on a hobby...
I know some shooters who bought Tony's rejects who had some success with them as well!
I sold it (cheap) to a friend who needed a "bargain-priced" barrel (with full disclosure), and he used different bullets and powders in it. He won (and placed 2nd and 3rd in) quite a few NBRSA matches with that barrel before it was finally shot out.
That barrel experience taught me that most premium barrels can be MADE to shoot well - IF you have the time and patience enough to feed it what it likes! If you don't - just do what Tony Boyer does - buy a dozen or so at a time, have them chambered and shoot a few different loads. Keep the ones that shoot well for you, and sell the ones that don't shoot to your expectations at reduced prices!
Of course, Tony's method takes more money than I have to spend on a hobby...
I know some shooters who bought Tony's rejects who had some success with them as well!
Liven The Dream
Gold $$ Contributor
I had one in .308 The maker had the Highest Record for Winning Barrels ….
The one I got would not shoot well with Varget ??? The go to Powder . For a period I figured I was Wrong some where.
I loaded some rounds with IMR 4320 off to Range. I get set up at 200 yards.
I shot one into the Berm . Set up on my Target Pulled the trigger one on paper . I saw nothing wrong with location shot number two.
I see only one hole ???? I shot number three ! hole looks maybe bigger ? I go down to look at the Target three shots in the same hole..
That barrel just need a powder change …. Go figure
Oh! it shoots to a 1000 yards very well .
The one I got would not shoot well with Varget ??? The go to Powder . For a period I figured I was Wrong some where.
I loaded some rounds with IMR 4320 off to Range. I get set up at 200 yards.
I shot one into the Berm . Set up on my Target Pulled the trigger one on paper . I saw nothing wrong with location shot number two.
I see only one hole ???? I shot number three ! hole looks maybe bigger ? I go down to look at the Target three shots in the same hole..
That barrel just need a powder change …. Go figure
Oh! it shoots to a 1000 yards very well .
What caliber was you tuning an what action just curious.
butchlambert
Site $$ Sponsor
Told this story before. I took a Hart barrel off of my Panda after playing with it for about 50 rounds. I gave it to a friend that needed a new barrel. He shot 2 zeros with it in Midland. Goes to show you.
50 rounds after break-in should give you the answer. Shoot an aggregate of five 5-shot groups on a good day. If more than two targets have uncalled fliers...
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
What caliber and what gun are you shooting?
I am rather curious at what caliber an action the op is shooting in this bad barrel does anyone have a clue it would be interesting to know.
MikeMcCasland
Team Texas F-T/R
I know it's not what most are shooting on this forum; I've been on a gas-gun kick as of late while getting a few bolt projects rebarreled. That said, I was shooting an Aero Precision M5 AR10, chambered in .260, with a 20" Lilja tube on it. It's one of the prethreaded/chambered AR10 barrels Lilja sells on their website.
I ran H4350, Varget, RL17, and Ramshot Hunter through it. Also tried Sierra 123s, Lapua 123s, Berger 130s, 130 TMKs, 142 SMKs, and finally a 120 SMK that showed promise, but alas was only a .40 G7 BC, so what's the point. Trashed a fresh set of Lapua brass testing all of the above combos.
And before anyone says anything, I know AR10s are tough to get to shoot. That said, I've spared almost no expense on this one, and expect it to shoot better than some of the box stock sub $1k AR10s I've seen at the range before.
Lastly, I was shooting it at the same pace I would a bolt gun (i.e. slow fire). Cleaning was performed with BoreTech Carbon Remover, followed by BoreTech Eliminator using jags & nylon brushes.
Edit: I've seen some comments about reloading equipment used too; I tried sizing using a standard Redding FL sizer, and also used bushing dies as well with .002 neck tension. All seating was done using a Redding comp seater.
I ran H4350, Varget, RL17, and Ramshot Hunter through it. Also tried Sierra 123s, Lapua 123s, Berger 130s, 130 TMKs, 142 SMKs, and finally a 120 SMK that showed promise, but alas was only a .40 G7 BC, so what's the point. Trashed a fresh set of Lapua brass testing all of the above combos.
And before anyone says anything, I know AR10s are tough to get to shoot. That said, I've spared almost no expense on this one, and expect it to shoot better than some of the box stock sub $1k AR10s I've seen at the range before.
Lastly, I was shooting it at the same pace I would a bolt gun (i.e. slow fire). Cleaning was performed with BoreTech Carbon Remover, followed by BoreTech Eliminator using jags & nylon brushes.
Edit: I've seen some comments about reloading equipment used too; I tried sizing using a standard Redding FL sizer, and also used bushing dies as well with .002 neck tension. All seating was done using a Redding comp seater.
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Barrel life in this calibre should be very good. As long as your groups stay consistant don't worry about it. i would estimate eight to ten thousand rounds would not be unusual as long as you are not shooting very high velocity loads. (3800 fps. or faster)
The Sako is a rifle that would be worth the expense of rebarreling at some point. I Have a 579 Sako in .243 Win. and it still shoots tighter than I can hold.
The Sako is a rifle that would be worth the expense of rebarreling at some point. I Have a 579 Sako in .243 Win. and it still shoots tighter than I can hold.
LA50SHOOTER
Sworn To Protect The Constitution.
I've seen them shoot in the Zero's in 7 rounds at 100 yards (A Broughton 30 cal.) and I've seen them take up to 30-50 rounds to settle in.
Reloading components and that process is also very critical and depending on caliber IF it were me, I'd try a recipe that was known to perform from an accuracy standpoint - i.e. Use the best components that are obtainable & best accuracy reloading practices.
- I had one barrel (custom) that never quit copper fouling and shot lousy. - After 70 rounds I got ahold of the mfgr. and I tried a little more, but the barrel ended up going back. - If they don't shoot and your doing everything you can to get them to, I wouldn't hesitate to contact the mfgr. and seek a solution.
- Ron -
Reloading components and that process is also very critical and depending on caliber IF it were me, I'd try a recipe that was known to perform from an accuracy standpoint - i.e. Use the best components that are obtainable & best accuracy reloading practices.
- I had one barrel (custom) that never quit copper fouling and shot lousy. - After 70 rounds I got ahold of the mfgr. and I tried a little more, but the barrel ended up going back. - If they don't shoot and your doing everything you can to get them to, I wouldn't hesitate to contact the mfgr. and seek a solution.
- Ron -
Someoldguy
My personal experience with .260Rem has been less than stellar accuracy. But my depth of experience is dwarfed by many here. That said, I've decided I'll not have another.
Alex Wheeler
Site $$ Sponsor
No one size fits all answer. If your an experienced BR shooter with many years tuning the same cartridge you will know in the first 100 or less. If its a new cartridge or combination to you it many take you quite a few rounds depending on your tuning skill. Tuning is a skill. It needs to be practiced and developed. Trying things until something works is not tuning, there should be a method behind the madness. I am more willing than ever to change components if things dont look right. All cartridges are capable of very good accuracy if the rifles built well. If you cant get it .3-.5 moa its not the cartridges fault. Bad barrels are RARE.
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MikeMcCasland
Team Texas F-T/R
I'm willing to accept that I'm not the best shooter, nor the best "tuner"; I certainly make no claim to be. That's half the reason why I lurk here so much; to learn from those that are more experienced. That said, I feel more than capable of consistently shooting at least a half minute, and routinely do so with multiple other rifles. I also haven't fired a factory round in ~15 years, so while I may not be David Tubb, it's not my first rodeo.
I want to be clear, I'm not dogging Lilja here; I think they make a good barrel. I will say this barrel coppers more than my other custom barrels, and just hasn't shown immediate "out of the box" accuracy like some other barrels I've had. If anything, you're probably right on the tuning piece; it wouldn't surprise me if this thing shot consistent .5 groups with the exact right load. If this were a .223 or something more economical to shoot, I'd invest more time and money into it. Unfortunately though, .260 isn't the cheapest thing to shoot; and it becomes less economical when you factor in only getting 4-6 loads before your brass is trashed (gas gun). So perhaps I agree; this likely isn't a bad barrel, it's just a picky barrel.
At some point though, when you're using all of the combinations that are supposed to work, and they just don't, you're left with a tough decision. Keep pouring time and money into it or cut your line and move on.
I'm choosing to cut the line.
If anyone here has a DPMS pattern AR10 and thinks they can get it to shoot, I'll make you a heck of a deal on a Lilja barrel; not even half way shot out!
Just wanted to mention; shooting large frame AR's is much more unforgiving than AR15's or bolt guns. You have to be absolutely on point consistent with your fundamentals every single shot.
FWIW, might wanna check out snipershide, theres a way bigger precision gas gun community over there.
FWIW, might wanna check out snipershide, theres a way bigger precision gas gun community over there.
I feel your pain, my wife's 260 w/20" barrel drove me freaking nutz.I'm willing to accept that I'm not the best shooter, nor the best "tuner"; I certainly make no claim to be. That's half the reason why I lurk here so much; to learn from those that are more experienced. That said, I feel more than capable of consistently shooting at least a half minute, and routinely do so with multiple other rifles. I also haven't fired a factory round in ~15 years, so while I may not be David Tubb, it's not my first rodeo.
I want to be clear, I'm not dogging Lilja here; I think they make a good barrel. I will say this barrel coppers more than my other custom barrels, and just hasn't shown immediate "out of the box" accuracy like some other barrels I've had. If anything, you're probably right on the tuning piece; it wouldn't surprise me if this thing shot consistent .5 groups with the exact right load. If this were a .223 or something more economical to shoot, I'd invest more time and money into it. Unfortunately though, .260 isn't the cheapest thing to shoot; and it becomes less economical when you factor in only getting 4-6 loads before your brass is trashed (gas gun). So perhaps I agree; this likely isn't a bad barrel, it's just a picky barrel.
At some point though, when you're using all of the combinations that are supposed to work, and they just don't, you're left with a tough decision. Keep pouring time and money into it or cut your line and move on.
I'm choosing to cut the line.
If anyone here has a DPMS pattern AR10 and thinks they can get it to shoot, I'll make you a heck of a deal on a Lilja barrel; not even half way shot out!
Folks here helped me get it to shoot .5 occasionally I get a .25-.3 with it.
Speeds are low with 143 eldx 2540fps
Using 46gr Rl22 lit with a cci200.
I've had to learn to live with it. "Not!"
Playing with the 120,130 bergers & 120 eldm, hopefully find something a lil quicker,I'd be happy at the 2700 mark.
I'm thinking bout some h414 next go round.
I did throw a load together of Rl22 with 140amax and shot in the .6's for fire forming.
You do have them ability to change your barrel as I do not. It's the wifes rifle not mine.
She says its "cute" polite way of saying I'm screwed!!
Before you throw out this barrel, my suggestion is to brush it aggressively (10+ full strokes) with a bronze brush using your BoreTech Eliminator. Follow up with patches until they run clean. Back to the range for one last test.
Ben
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