Arisaka rifle rounds question.

[jlow]

So I was on a board today and someone uploaded a photo of some loaded rounds for a Japanese Arisaka rifle. It’s suppose to be a 7.7mm caliber. Anyhow, I looked at them and was shocked to see how long the bullets extend out of their necks. Did a Google search and found this Wiki page which showed loaded rounds that I find much more believable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.7×58mm_Arisaka

Based on my reloading experience, I find it pretty difficult to believe that these are real and can be loaded with the clip on these rifles (it does not use a mag). Anyone care to educate me on these?

 

[JohnKielly]

Amazing how much elp you'll get from auntie Google if you ask her nicely: https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...j83SAhVGmJQKHTmEB-AQ_AUICCgB&biw=1464&bih=941

 

[hogpatrol]

Some of those Arisakas were made in 6.5x50mm

 

[jlow]

Yes, I've seen those pictures using Google search but again, they seem awfully long even for a 6.5 but are you saying the long ones are 6.5 and that is normal?

 

[JohnKielly]

As I understand, the early 6.5s were loaded with round nose bullets which required a long throat & when they went to spitzers, they "fitted" them to that throat length, unlike The Springfield which they chambered for a shorter throat (30/03 to 30/06).

 

[DRNewcomb]

The Wikipedia page cited give a case length of 2.27" and an OAL of 3.13" so the bullet should protrude from the case up to 0.86".

 

[hogpatrol]

Yes, I've seen those pictures using Google search but again, they seem awfully long even for a 6.5 but are you saying the long ones are 6.5 and that is normal?

I don't know the answer to that question and wish I had taken better notice the last time I was at the range. There was a guy there with a Carcano built 6.5 Arisaka. I didn't even know they came in that caliber until I saw it.

 

[DRNewcomb]

I don't know the answer to that question and wish I had taken better notice the last time I was at the range. There was a guy there with a Carcano built 6.5 Arisaka. I didn't even know they came in that caliber until I saw it.

"The Type I rifles built by Italy for Japan under the terms of the Anti-Comintern pact from 1939 to 1943 are in standard 6.5×50mm Japanese. Their Italian origin should not be taken to mean that these will safely fire the longer, but outwardly similar, 6.5×52mm Carcano round. An unknown number of Dutch M1895 Mannlicher rifles and carbines captured by Japanese forces during the seizure of the Dutch East Indies in 1942 were converted to 6.5×50mm from the 6.5×53mm Dutch rimmed chambering." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.5×50mmSR_Arisaka#Other_6.5_mm_firearms

 

[jlow]

"The Type I rifles built by Italy for Japan under the terms of the Anti-Comintern pact from 1939 to 1943 are in standard 6.5×50mm Japanese. Their Italian origin should not be taken to mean that these will safely fire the longer, but outwardly similar, 6.5×52mm Carcano round. An unknown number of Dutch M1895 Mannlicher rifles and carbines captured by Japanese forces during the seizure of the Dutch East Indies in 1942 were converted to 6.5×50mm from the 6.5×53mm Dutch rimmed chambering." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.5×50mmSR_Arisaka#Other_6.5_mm_firearms

Yes, they definitely look like the Dutch version… Thanks! The degree of protuberance of the bullet still amazes me, makes my .308 FTR with a 200 grain bullet seems like a midget! I wonder if they have problem holding the bullet. With such a length of bullet sticking out, it would seem like one would easily have enough leverage to accidentally torque the bullets out of the neck...

 

[Zero333]

This is normal for old military cartridges.

Have you seen 6.5x55 Swede rounds from 100+ years ago ???

 

[jlow]

Yes, that is how they looked like – thanks! Any idea why they stop doing that? Perhaps it’s because as mentioned earlier because I it is too easy to torque the bullets out of the neck?

 

[2506]

The reason that most 6.5 military caliber rifles had bullets that long is because they were in the 150+ gr weight and the bullet had to be long. The COAL was so long because you did not want to take up your powder capacity in the case by having the shank of those long bullets down in the case. Those long heavy bullets really penetrated through things.

 

[jlow]

The reason that most 6.5 military caliber rifles had bullets that long is because they were in the 150+ gr weight and the bullet had to be long. The COAL was so long because you did not want to take up your powder capacity in the case by having the shank of those long bullets down in the case. Those long heavy bullets really penetrated through things.

Interesting! I shoot a .260 Rem using 140 Berger Hybrids and my max COAL is around 2.92”, so I guess a COAL of 3.13” is not totally unreasonable. You think though with those bullets being round nose, they could make up that 10 extra grains without additional length?

 

[Shaggy357]

I used to shoot the RCBS 165 Silhouette cast bullet in a 7.7. I sized them to .311 and seated them in brass made from -06 brass. The lube groove was just inside the neck. Those bullets seated waaaaayyyyyy out. Long throated rifles. Took me a little practice to load 5 rounds with the stripper clips. Was a fun run while it lasted.

 

[TC260]

Yes, I've seen those pictures using Google search but again, they seem awfully long even for a 6.5 but are you saying the long ones are 6.5 and that is normal?

I shoot a Type 38 Arisaka sometimes and yeah load 160 RN's out as far as needed. No probs. That and the 7x57/175 RN get some strange looks from the high velocity crowd at the deer camp I'll tell ya what