Are Remington 700 Barrels Button or Hammer Forged

[brianc74]

As the title says.
Are newer Remington 5R barrels Button rifled or Hammer Forged?

Brian

 

[cjames]

I had a 5R Mil Spec 308 that looked like it was made with a hammer drill. It had chunks of rifling missing from the lands and had porosity all the through out the barrel. Best was 3 shot not 5 shot was about 1.5 MOA. Sent it back to Remington. They sent it back and said "it was in spec". I called Remington to talk about it. They told me if I wanted better than that, I need to get a smith to build a rifle. Sold it and never looked back.

 

[JimT]

https://www.remington.com/rifles/bolt-action/model-700/model-700-stainless-5-r

Mine, in .308, shoots 1/2 inch groups consistently. Rifling looks great. Lug contact is better than any of my early prefix 700’s.

 

[riflewoman]

Remington makes almost all of their barrels by rotary hammer forging. It’s the fastest method of manufacturing a barrel.

 

[FrankG]

They do both! If memory serves me correctly the new plant down in AL are all button barrels.

 

[AckleymanII]

I am not sure they are going to release their trade secrets to the public. I know that they are making some button rifle barrels but what models they put them on is unknown.

 

[Bc'z]

My wifes Remington 1" gun
My Remington lights out baby!
Mine is 17 years old, her's is 2 years old

 

[sparky123321]

Forging and rifling are two completely different things?

 

[snert]

Hammer forging is done by placing a mandrel with ridges (rifling) into a pipe them pounding the crap outta the outside with huge hammers to make the rifling on the inside. Glock does it, Remington does it. Remington used to use button rifling at Ilion

 

[sparky123321]

Now I get it.

 

[msinc]

This is what Remington has to say about it:

"Built off the legendary 700 action, the Remington 700 5-R sets the benchmark for accuracy and durability. Much like M-24, the barrel is cold hammer forged and features 5-R rifling. The 5R rifling profile increases barrel life expectancy, accuracy and creates less fouling and bullet deformation over time. Whether you’re a benchrest shooter or longtime hunter, look no further for better reliability and precision."

There are 3 main ways to do rifling, cut, button and hammer forged. While each are supposed to have their respective "advantages", either the so called advantages are very subtle or I cant shoot good enough to see the difference, because I have had shooters that were rifled all three ways.
Cut is supposed to impart the least stress, button gives a very smooth finish and size and hammer forged, while the fastest way to do it, does impart the most stress.

 

[AlaBusa]

and hammer forged, while the fastest way to do it, does impart the most stress.

That is why Remingtons "walk" so much as the barrel heats up. The last one I had would start shifting poi on the 3rd shot from a cold bore.

 

[1611]

Got a 50 year old rem 700 hunting rifle, shoots great. 1 moa gun, but haven’t tried to dial it in with handloads, going to this summer.

With handloads:Got two new rem 700s, 300WM and a 5R 308. Both are shooting 1/2 moa 5 shot strings when I check the zero before taking them long. Can’t complain.

Surprisingly the 300 win man is shooting tighter than the 308...


With that said I have a 30” Bartlein on order for the 300 and about to order a 30” Bartlein for the 308 lol

 

[FrankG]

Pulled or pushed?

If I recall correctly pulled. I could be wrong.

 

[FrankG]

That is why Remingtons "walk" so much as the barrel heats up. The last one I had would start shifting poi on the 3rd shot from a cold bore.

That is stress in the blank. Common in button barrels as well. The old saying is a heavier contoured barrel shoots better than a lighter contour. I agree with that to an extent.

Always say....the straighter the blank, the more uniform the bore and groove sizes over the length of the barrel, the more uniform the twist and the more stress free the barrel the more forgiving it is going to be.

One thing no barrel maker can measure for is stress in the blank.

Cut rifling doesn’t induce any stress into the barrel blank. Just one of the advantages.

 

[FrankG]

This is what Remington has to say about it:

"Built off the legendary 700 action, the Remington 700 5-R sets the benchmark for accuracy and durability. Much like M-24, the barrel is cold hammer forged and features 5-R rifling. The 5R rifling profile increases barrel life expectancy, accuracy and creates less fouling and bullet deformation over time. Whether you’re a benchrest shooter or longtime hunter, look no further for better reliability and precision."

The style of rifling doesn't increase barrel life. On average a cut barrel goes longer barrel life wise by a min. of 15%. This is because cut rifling doesn't work harden the bore like hammer forging or button rifling. This isn't me just saying so. It's data I've gotten back from bullet makers, ammo makers etc....Again nothing to do with the style of rifling in my opinion that will necessarily make the barrel last longer.

Also 5R rifling does not necessarily create less fouling. I feel it might be a little easier to clean from a carbon fouling stand point. In terms of copper fouling all things being equal in a 4 groove, conventional 5 groove, 6 groove or even 8 groove we've made them all I don't see a difference. I've seen 5R rifled barrels with excessive fouling as well but other things can contribute to the fouling. Poorly made barrel, crappy ammo/bullets, poor gunsmithing work as well as the shooter damaging the bore from improper cleaning.

I do believe in and have maintained for several years that the 5R rifling does help fight bullet failure. This is because the odd number of lands and grooves....the lands don't directly oppose one another. This distorts and upsets the bullet jacket less when the bullet enters the rifling. This isn't just based on my observations either. Ballistic guys at Hornady have confirmed it for me as well. They've shot/tested hundreds of barrels in different calibers over the last several years and have the data to support it.

Also a false claim in my opinion is that the 5R rifling helps the bullet seal better in the barrel and you get more velocity out of it. I've never seen it and also places like Hornady, Federal Cart., Gov't testing etc....have confirmed it also with everything being equal. Same chamber reamer, loads, bore and groove sizes being the same etc..only difference is the number of grooves.

 

[FrankG]

button gives a very smooth finish and size and hammer forged, while the fastest way to do it, does impart the most stress.

Both induce a lot of stress.

As far as button rifling giving a very smooth finish....also a old claim. The saying is button rifling will iron out the reamer marks. To an extent it does but if the reamer marks are heavy the marks will just get pressed down into the grooves as well. Button rifling doesn't remove material. It displaces material.

Also during the button rifling process the twist is built into the button. Some button makers are trying to help guide the rotation of the button. What happens is if the button hits a hard spot or soft spot in the bore it will slow the button down. It could speed back up but either way you end up with a barrel with a non uniform twist.

 

[L.Sherm]

Frank if a button barrel is reamed and lapped properly
"Before" the button is pulled it will leave a very nice finish with the proper follower.

 

[brianc74]

So. What about Tikka T3 barrels? What are they? Why are they a bit slower in velocity? Will threading the muzzle for a muzzlebreak decrease accuracy?

 

[natdscott]

Both induce a lot of stress.

As far as button rifling giving a very smooth finish....also a old claim. The saying is button rifling will iron out the reamer marks. To an extent it does but if the reamer marks are heavy the marks will just get pressed down into the grooves as well. Button rifling doesn't remove material. It displaces material.

Also during the button rifling process the twist is built into the button. Some button makers are trying to help guide the rotation of the button. What happens is if the button hits a hard spot or soft spot in the bore it will slow the button down. It could speed back up but either way you end up with a barrel with a non uniform twist.

Frank, I agree with your theories.

That being said, there are sure a LOT of records set and reset with buttoned barrels, so it IS a workable solution to the dilemma of "how to make a twisty-tube".

I choose to use cut barrels because I feel they are the best "SURE" way to get a good tube, and because I feel that they are more stable as they heat up in rapid fire, but I do have at least one KILLER buttoned tube.

-Nate