Are Ranks of Shooters Growing or Shrinking?

[bsekf]

One of our local stores had RL15 for $75/pound. As far as I am concerned, they'll have it a long time. Most of the Hogdens powder is near $50 /pound after you consider Hazmat, shipping and sales tax. Cost of components has nearly tripled during the last 10-12 year "shortage". I know there are a lot of guys making a 6 figure salary but most are spending 6 1/2 figures! The young folks I know would be well advised to quit spending and pay off their debt. Only the Fed can make money without working.

 

[AccelR8]

Care to share where?

Respectfully...I think I would be wise not to share because I am a member there and shoot on my own regularly and some of those guys can be spiteful and hold a grudge. Lots of good folks but there's a few...

edit to add, a member on this forum has taken a personal interest and reached out to me in order to help which I do appreciate. As I responded to the member, I don't want to follow up on this issue. As the much over used saying goes, it is what it is. The game and the people are just not for me.

My point originally in posting was, if we want to grow or even maintain the number of people interested in and participating in the shooting sports we have to be open an encouraging, and fair and honorable. It seems like some among us are the opposite of that.

 

[jimmymac]

Respectfully...I think I would be wise not to share because I am a member there and shoot on my own regularly and some of those guys can be spiteful and hold a grudge. Lots of good folks but there's a few...

edit to add, a member on this forum has taken a personal interest and reached out to me in order to help which I do appreciate. As I responded to the member, I don't want to follow up on this issue. As the much over used saying goes, it is what it is. The game and the people are just not for me.

My point originally in posting was, if we want to grow or even maintain the number of people interested in and participating in the shooting sports we have to be open an encouraging, and fair and honorable. It seems like some among us are the opposite of that.

If I’d have taken a hard line stance by letting my first experience dictate what I’d do moving forward I would not be enjoying competitive shooting today. Food for thought. There are a lot of different games, a lot of different crowds and a lot of different ranges. Can’t let a single instance sour you. Life is too short.

 

[JEFFPPC]

Lots of excuses not to compete. Yours is just another one. I would say tighten your belt, learn the game, go beat the guy. Before I got into br 26 yrs ago I always heard the br guys were snobs. As a group I have found the opposite. Sometimes YOU have to be the guy to stick your hand out, and say good morning. If your feeling get hurt easily, that's a problem only YOU can solve. I used to work with a guy who when some one complained would look at them and say....Toughen up Butter cup. Often good advice for all of us.

 

[jimmymac]

@AccelR8

You are northwest of me in Ohio. Unfortunately, I’m done for this season because I have some surgery scheduled for early next month that is going to put me on the shelf for months.

If I’m still kicking next Spring you can drive south and I will take you to a match where you can’t help but have fun. You can shoot one of my rifles if you like. There are good people at these events, at least the ones I go to. Your call. PM me if you have any interest.

 

[209jones]

I`m in a position where I can go to the range any time I want, weather permitting, I have supplies I may never use up. Look at new stuff and scratch my head at the prices, some of those prices would preclude me from taking up any comps as a newbie who had to buy that stuff. I wanted to go look at a couple of comps, the way they set things up, they don`t tell you where it actually is, unless you pay to register for it, which to me is kinda pointless. I wanted to go check it out first, not shoot it. Doesn`t strike me as a great way to encourage new people to participate. I``ve never really agreed with the ``keep the gates closed`` policy during matches either, and may have driven 100mi or more to get there just to check the place and people out, some places have a long walk in.

 

[David Milisock]

Respectfully...I think I would be wise not to share because I am a member there and shoot on my own regularly and some of those guys can be spiteful and hold a grudge. Lots of good folks but there's a few...

edit to add, a member on this forum has taken a personal interest and reached out to me in order to help which I do appreciate. As I responded to the member, I don't want to follow up on this issue. As the much over used saying goes, it is what it is. The game and the people are just not for me.

My point originally in posting was, if we want to grow or even maintain the number of people interested in and participating in the shooting sports we have to be open an encouraging, and fair and honorable. It seems like some among us are the opposite of that.

I don't compete, when I did the targets shot back. I've been range master at two ranges spent over 12 years working ranges and building them fortunately most shooters are reasonable people.

There are basically two reasons I don't compete, I prefer my own brand of shooting, outside of traing by Rex Applegate, I never have seen any type of organized training or competition that really teaches what you need to be a field rifleman or a CQB shooter. Drop, acquire, fire and hit in any conditions. CQB handgun or rifle is an art of its own.

The second reason is that on any one range there's going to be 10 to 15% of the shooters that will be the problem group, at completions it will be 60% or higher.

They act like sweet boys at a lace panty sale.

I just can't take it they need taken to the wood shed.

 

[AccelR8]

"Excuses not to compete"
You'd be surprised how competitive I am and have been throughout my life, and how I can shoot.
I have not been a competitive shooter, other than Service Rifle, until now. I have competed in other areas. But as I age, I am looking for other things to participate in where a broken and worn out body are less of a limiting factor. Hey...is Bingo still a thing?

 

[Liven The Dream]

My two cents.
I have see Match turn out down. I am talking Palma ,F/Class Matches in the PNW.
Why ? Cost of Reloading , People lost interest ?I have no answer .
I know a shooter that has gone from Palma,back to Pistol. I have a pal that stopped going to Prone Matches because the F/Class Shooters only want 1000 yards.

I am going to Rim Fire and Mid Range only. Why the change in Personnel is a welcome change.
Please in the mean time keep Burning Powder.

 

[JFrank]

"Excuses not to compete"
You'd be surprised how competitive I am and have been throughout my life, and how I can shoot.
I have not been a competitive shooter, other than Service Rifle, until now. I have competed in other areas. But as I age, I am looking for other things to participate in where a broken and worn out body are less of a limiting factor. Hey...is Bingo still a thing?

There’s always fishing..

 

[JimPag]

Ibs vfs is growing .... The supplies for the calibers we shoot is becoming more findable.

Seriously Johnny. You must be delusional because your way off. Look at the attendance this year at all the ranges in SR IBS VFS. Look at the SSOY points and see how many people have shot at least one match. Since the last SSOY points came out on 8-3, there have been 148 total shooters who have shot one match at least and if you count the number of shooters who only shot one match it's 45 shooters and one of those 45 is me. The total number of shooters in Hunter Class who have shot one match or more is only 18. That is way down from last years attendance and it's been steadily going down every year. Look at the NBRSA Nationals they just had where Cascarino kicked everyone's ass. What was it something like 76 in VFS and like 46 in Hunter Class! I mean are you kidding me!! NBRSA must be doing something right because in the 11 Seasons that I have been shooting the most in IBS SR VFS at a Nationals that I have seen is 56 at Weikert, PA in 2017. IBS SR score vs NBRSA SR score is a joke. Like I said they are doing something right.

 

[wildcatter]

I`m in a position where I can go to the range any time I want, weather permitting, I have supplies I may never use up. Look at new stuff and scratch my head at the prices, some of those prices would preclude me from taking up any comps as a newbie who had to buy that stuff. I wanted to go look at a couple of comps, the way they set things up, they don`t tell you where it actually is, unless you pay to register for it, which to me is kinda pointless. I wanted to go check it out first, not shoot it. Doesn`t strike me as a great way to encourage new people to participate. I``ve never really agreed with the ``keep the gates closed`` policy during matches either, and may have driven 100mi or more to get there just to check the place and people out, some places have a long walk in.

I been doing this for decades, sorry but in the USA I have yet to witness closed gates on match day, in any type of match to this date in time.

In the USA I have found just the opposite! On Match day, rifle, pistol, shotgun, muzzle loader, even air rifle, and I've entertained them all at one time or another, I've yet to witness a locked gate or restriction to anyone wanting to participate or investigate the sport, unless they refused to follow the rules for the grounds they were on.

I'd give any other range a shot if what you say is true, it is not the normal in this country. At leat in the eastern USA.

 

[urbanrifleman]

They rather slow it to a trickle to save a civil disturbance.

Correct

 

[jimmymac]

The second reason is that on any one range there's going to be 10 to 15% of the shooters that will be the problem group, at completions it will be 60% or higher.

They act like sweet boys at a lace panty sale.

I just can't take it they need taken to the wood shed.

Comments like this do more to keep people away than people who actually shoot matches. The above couldn’t be further from the truth.

Going to matches is no different than everyday life. There are a certain percentage of folks who are miserable and project that to others. It is certainly nowhere near 60%. That’s crazy.

There is always a turd in the punch bowl. It doesn’t mean you have to scoop that cupful into your mug.

 

[6fatrat]

Lots of new shooters, but only a slight increase in active shooters.
The increased cost of ammo along with an economic downturn i think is the reason for this.
Steve Bair

 

[David Milisock]

Comments like this do more to keep people away than people who actually shoot matches. The above couldn’t be further from the truth.

Going to matches is no different than everyday life. There are a certain percentage of folks who are miserable and project that to others. It is certainly nowhere near 60%. That’s crazy.

There is always a turd in the punch bowl. It doesn’t mean you have to scoop that cupful into your mug.

I've been on ranges since the age of 11, that's 58 years, as a youngster I've shot beside and worked with 3 world champions. People today are not the same, they have gotten worse. Today especially in the pistol and AR training practices and product marketing, shooting sports have gone to crap.

I'll give the precision rifle and bench rest guys this, they develop interesting cartridges, a real service. However be it pistol, rifle or shotgun courses/competitions they only thing these courses do is train a shooter to be good at shooting the course as developed. This a great rifleman or pistol shooter it does not make. In my opinion Jeff Cooper got rich screwing up shooting sports.

An few exampls, a kid at one of my ranges (mid 30's) practicing drawing and firing. I told him his concepts were sheep dip! The kid was fast. We tested this using paint ball guns at 15 feet, we drew, he fired but I didn't do what he expected, he missed and I popped his 10 ring. A similar thing with another guy and his $3,500 M4 clone. Force multipliers that couldn't handle a little rough and tumble using the rifle as a club. We did a little rough and tumble, his M4 and my M1A1 Carbine, when done he couldn't hit paper at 25 yards, my (at that time 70 years old) carbine good to gonat 200 yards.

Current training is good at orientation, safety on the range, functional aspects of a firearm. Competitions are good for people to develop skills to be proficient at that particular course of fire.

Unfortunately a high enough number of competitors represent a significantly negative aspect of human behaviors. I belong to 4 private ranges, at each and every range over the years once a range adapts some type of competition it negatively affects a large portion of the current members.

Be it skeet, trap, sporting clays, pistol, CMP, rim fire or centerfire rifle competitions. At public clubs the competitors try and dominate the governing boards, considerations for most of the members take a back seat to the needs of the competitors, most who shoot are visitors. The behaviors on the range become less shooter/family friendly.

I have no problems with this at ranges that operate for profit. They do what makes money, God bless them and I can pay to play or not.

I shifted my main range to not only a private range but one where the members are actually the owners of the range.

 

[jackieschmidt]

I don't compete, when I did the targets shot back. I've been range master at two ranges spent over 12 years working ranges and building them fortunately most shooters are reasonable people.

There are basically two reasons I don't compete, I prefer my own brand of shooting, outside of traing by Rex Applegate, I never have seen any type of organized training or competition that really teaches what you need to be a field rifleman or a CQB shooter. Drop, acquire, fire and hit in any conditions. CQB handgun or rifle is an art of its own.

The second reason is that on any one range there's going to be 10 to 15% of the shooters that will be the problem group, at completions it will be 60% or higher.

They act like sweet boys at a lace panty sale.

I just can't take it they need taken to the wood shed.

With all due respect, in my close to 30 years in Competitive Benchrest, which also includes running matches at my home club in Tomball Texas, what you are describing is simply not the case.

 

[jimmymac]

@David Milisock

Not even sure how to respond other than to say I’ve had way more positive experiences at matches than the other way around. I’ve shot at a lot of different ranges and the vibe for the most part has been far more welcoming than not so I just don’t agree with your assessment. I’ll keep doing what I do and try and promote the game in whatever small way I can. You can keep badmouthing it if you choose. Your view from where I’m sitting is not the reality I’m living.

 

[JMayo]

Seriously Johnny. You must be delusional because your way off. Look at the attendance this year at all the ranges in SR IBS VFS. Look at the SSOY points and see how many people have shot at least one match. Since the last SSOY points came out on 8-3, there have been 148 total shooters who have shot one match at least and if you count the number of shooters who only shot one match it's 45 shooters and one of those 45 is me. The total number of shooters in Hunter Class who have shot one match or more is only 18. That is way down from last years attendance and it's been steadily going down every year. Look at the NBRSA Nationals they just had where Cascarino kicked everyone's ass. What was it something like 76 in VFS and like 46 in Hunter Class! I mean are you kidding me!! NBRSA must be doing something right because in the 11 Seasons that I have been shooting the most in IBS SR VFS at a Nationals that I have seen is 56 at Weikert, PA in 2017. IBS SR score vs NBRSA SR score is a joke. Like I said they are doing something right.

I'm not gonna defend hard ... We have several new guys, new clubs and good attendance.
UBR at Alleghany is also doing well.
So again .... bench rest isn't dying around here.

 

[JEFFPPC]

At our club which runs 3 matches a month in the good weather our attendance this year is up at all of them. Our winter match actually draws too many shooters. I see everyone talking to everyone, lots of laughter and good natured kidding. I know a club that had some turds, they were uninvited, but that club is going strong. Maybe because our clubs are rural with most shooters coming from small towns but if you can't get a long maybe you need to look at yourself. In the name of I say it like it is I see a few who are too rigid and looking for something negative. Often they drift away and are not missed. Language at matches is a good way to keep women and youngsters away. Police it. I started a new Airgun Match this year. At the beginning of every shoot one of the 2 rules read is no profanity please. Drop an f bomb or use the Lord's name in vain you will be asked too leave. We have had no problems, it was put in basically for one shooter, he is aware and even jokes sbout now. We get some young ladys shooting and kids. We don't want or need to listen to lack of communication skills. Remember, if your looking for a fight you can usually find one. If your smiling and friendly you will usually get the same in return.