Not much of one but still a choke. When you cut an inch off that might change. I just don't want one that opens up.
Are Custom Rifle Barrels "Choked"?
- Thread starter HTSmith
- Start date
Not much of one but still a choke. When you cut an inch off that might change. I just don't want one that opens up.
alinwa
Banned
Weelllll...... I actually measure up EVERY barrel, not just "the next one" and will be "measuring one" later today. Lapped barrels have a lapping bell. PERIOD. EVERY BARTLEIN has a lapping bell. This lapping bell is an opened up, eccentric area at either end where the lap is reversed, PERIOD. And some have an incidental choke. I've chambered two with the choke "on the wrong end" and they shot fine (and by "fine" I don't mean they were OK..... I mean they agged FINE, which means dozens of consecutive 5-shot groups with NO AIR in them. One-hole)
(((These were CF barrels. I don't shoot RF nor competitive air rifle cuz I just cain't get excited about $5,000.00 guns which aren't as accurate as my 30-06 deer rifle.)))
And the instructions from every real "Match" barrel maker (the ones who actually WIN at large matches).....except those few (ONE) who don't lap their barrels.... is to bandsaw the end of the barrel off... throw it away.....(there is ONE maker in particular that actually makes a Match barrel that will compete without lapping. But I sincerely doubt you've ever owned one as they are currently "out of favor.")
On this lemming-like "favoritism" subject. When I got my first Bench Rest Rifle back in the late 80's "you weren't shootin' unless you shot a Hart"...... basically 80% of all BR barrels East if the Rockies were Harts. Now you won't often see a Hart at a match. And if you do the guy will be over 70yrs....Does this mean they suck???
NO!!! (neither the barrels nor the guys)
Hart and Douglas are Olde Schoole GOOD barrels..... button-rifled Shilen, Douglas and Hart RULED THE ROOST for many years and are still completely competitive but shooter's mentalities are what drive markets and currently shooters are infatuated with "cut-rifled barrels" and that's that!
When I build spec rifles, and sell them as proof-tested with loads/dies/press I often use these "out-of-favor" barrels. And I NEVER mark the brand of barrel on my builds except when the customer supplies a barrel or I order a barrel with customer money.
When you've a gun in hand that shoots better than any other you own..... if you worry/wonder about "brand of barrel" or "type of rifling" you're an idiot. And NOT a customer of mine.
I'll be competing tomorrow morning and both of my rifles will wear olde-school button-rifled barrels. Barrels where I hacked off a lapping bell.
Don't "wish me luck"..... I won't need it. I'll rise or fall on the merits of my shooting/loading NOT because of the rifling method used on the barrel. The only "luck" I'll need is luck of the relay draw.
I've got a bucket of lapping bells
And it pains me daily that the first questions asked by "shooting" guys who think they've found a kindred soul are "so how many guns do you have?" and "which is better, cut-rifled or button-rifled?"
DK,
don't tell Dusty...
don't tell Dusty...
Nothing that rides on the lands can tell you anything about the groove diameter of a barrel. In the case of a cut rifled barrel, the bore and groove diameters are produced by separate and independent operations. Given that Bartlein uses computer controlled Sunnen honing machines to finish after reaming, I would expect the bore (top of lands) diameters to be very uniform from end to end, disregarding lapping bells.
Alinwa
Your comments I think where very genuine you might Be the person to ask this without reaching out to the actual company that makes cut rifled barrels I think I know the answer but have never really heard the real reason for lapping a cut rifled barrel or some of the button rifle barrels when you have the time educate us if you know the reasoning for lapping.
Your comments I think where very genuine you might Be the person to ask this without reaching out to the actual company that makes cut rifled barrels I think I know the answer but have never really heard the real reason for lapping a cut rifled barrel or some of the button rifle barrels when you have the time educate us if you know the reasoning for lapping.
It scares the hell out of me....
how often we agree!
...which isn't always, but seems like it of late. Not sure who I feel sorriest for...you or me...same affliction and same disdain for bs. You do have a way with words that I envy.
Glad to see you posting more of late, Al!--Mike
alinwa
Banned
LOL Stan...... yer askin me to lay MY HEAD on the train tracks eh....
I will try give my opinion on this later if I get a chance. Right now I'm down loading a Ga-friggin-Zillion rounds for a 600yd match because ya got's ta' come preloaded and for me that's HARD! (I'ma' gonna' run TUNA'S on both guns cuz ain't had time to make a bulletproof series of loads LOL!! Be fireforming for my Heavy! Got NO LOAD!!!!)
I'll still get some wood I expect....
Really though Stan, the thing that pisses me off the most about Good Stuff is that markets are driven by money. You've gotta' make money to stay alive. (this is GOOD, but...)
And money is made by selling to the folks driving The Market Car...... (still GOOD I guess...)
But The Market Car is always being driven by idiots who steer where they look..... and they're always looking at the shiney new stuff and driving THERE and THERE! and THERE!!! Plus, they need to finance a new Market Car every year cuz the old brand is so passe'....
Meanwhile about 3 people are always winning, and they're using really Good Stuff but there's only 3 of them. Ya' can't make a living on three people..... who're still driving that same pickup they bought 15yrs ago......
Ohh well...... my lunch is all ate up.
Back to the grind.
As Dan Armstrong would say, There has been some Keyboard Gun Plumbing BS posted in this thread. I have not seen any one shooting a blunderbuss in over 100 years.
Of course better rifle barrels are tighter on the muzzle end. The primary reason for removing the last inch of a custom barrel is that last inch is not lapped. The lap is not taken out of the bore until the end. It is stopped short and reversed in direction
Better barrels are made from better quality steel, cut, stress relieves, drilled, reamed, stress relieves, pre lapped, buttoned or cut, stress, post lapped, contoured, and final stress relieving.
Of course better rifle barrels are tighter on the muzzle end. The primary reason for removing the last inch of a custom barrel is that last inch is not lapped. The lap is not taken out of the bore until the end. It is stopped short and reversed in direction
Better barrels are made from better quality steel, cut, stress relieves, drilled, reamed, stress relieves, pre lapped, buttoned or cut, stress, post lapped, contoured, and final stress relieving.
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Still no choke on bartlein, krieger, shilen or lederer ive checked since this. And why mic the muzzle before i cut it off? The end 1” is always smaller on a lapped barrel- thats why you cut it off- so ive never bothered to check it. Every one ive checked were within .0001 and that was most likely due to a very light contour on a button barrel. I may be cutting the choke off and thats fine- im not trying to pattern these barrels. Krieger MAKES you cut their bad end off unless you want a saw cut 1” back on your finished barrel. If i ever do get one thats not the same on both ends or under .0001 ill be sending it back.
Alex Wheeler
Site $$ Sponsor
Another way to reduce the volume of a barrel on the muzzle end and ad choke is with a gain twist and it sure doesn't hurt.
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