BowChamp,Factory or unlimited? What bench are you shooting on?
Congratulations on your ARA Unlimited Class win yesterday. It was very nice to meet and talk with you. You did some fine shooting in those conditions.
ARA SHOOTERS--QUESTION ABOUT CLEANING FREQUENCY
- Thread starter dusterdave173
- Start date
Congratulations on your ARA Unlimited Class win yesterday. It was very nice to meet and talk with you. You did some fine shooting in those conditions.
Thank You Sir!!! It was good to meet y'all, talk and put faces with names.
I enjoyed every bit of it!!
Rampsey
Silver $$ Contributor
I believe,
That cleaning routine depends on each individual barrel.
Specifically smoothness of the bore.
Most factory barrels aren't hand lapped.
With more imperfections, chatter marks, chips thruout the bore particularly at its choke or highest areas.
Consistent deep cleaning removes all the lead all the lube, that can take 100? 400? Rounds to fill in.
With the clean bore, every bullet is getting scraped and engraved differently.
Creating inconsistency in velocity as well as accuracy.
Most, custom match barrels are, hand lapped.
Removing most of these tool marks.
So they adapt faster from a clean bore to a seasoned Consistent bore in only a few 2-5 shots.
Then there's the thought that lapping a rough factory barrel will resolve this condition.
But unlike a custom barrel that is tight minimum spec. Then lapped. Which increases bore size .
A factory barrel is almost always way beyond minimum spec, mayb closer to maximum bore spec. That if you truly lapp it. It potentially loses accuracy but. Stays cleaner.
Trial and error and 1000s of rounds is the only way to learn what your specific barrel prefers, or when.
That cleaning routine depends on each individual barrel.
Specifically smoothness of the bore.
Most factory barrels aren't hand lapped.
With more imperfections, chatter marks, chips thruout the bore particularly at its choke or highest areas.
Consistent deep cleaning removes all the lead all the lube, that can take 100? 400? Rounds to fill in.
With the clean bore, every bullet is getting scraped and engraved differently.
Creating inconsistency in velocity as well as accuracy.
Most, custom match barrels are, hand lapped.
Removing most of these tool marks.
So they adapt faster from a clean bore to a seasoned Consistent bore in only a few 2-5 shots.
Then there's the thought that lapping a rough factory barrel will resolve this condition.
But unlike a custom barrel that is tight minimum spec. Then lapped. Which increases bore size .
A factory barrel is almost always way beyond minimum spec, mayb closer to maximum bore spec. That if you truly lapp it. It potentially loses accuracy but. Stays cleaner.
Trial and error and 1000s of rounds is the only way to learn what your specific barrel prefers, or when.
dusterdave173
Silver $$ Contributor
All input appreciated so..
Tested today outdoors with very good conditions--we have our next big ARA match coming up Dec 7 and 8--some indoor and some will be outside. At the moment I have hundreds and hundreds of rounds down the barrel --I clean the chamber and ring with C4 and a couple of dry patches down the tube after--no solvent has been down the barrel in about 6oo-700 plus rounds now--nothing but a dry patch every 100 or so--The rifle is shooting really well--I tested with 3 ammos today--A really good batch of SK Pistol Match--was so good I picked up the phone at the range and ordered more--Did final testing on a lot of SK Red that has proven to be the best out of the two test bricks we got from Whiddons--2 of those 10 were good the other 8 were not--also tested some Polar Biathlon today as it is about all the Lapua in stock at the moment---Picked the lot number as last three digits were same as a great muscle car engine--it shot like you would expect--very well.
After this upcoming 2 day match we will see and go from there.
Tested today outdoors with very good conditions--we have our next big ARA match coming up Dec 7 and 8--some indoor and some will be outside. At the moment I have hundreds and hundreds of rounds down the barrel --I clean the chamber and ring with C4 and a couple of dry patches down the tube after--no solvent has been down the barrel in about 6oo-700 plus rounds now--nothing but a dry patch every 100 or so--The rifle is shooting really well--I tested with 3 ammos today--A really good batch of SK Pistol Match--was so good I picked up the phone at the range and ordered more--Did final testing on a lot of SK Red that has proven to be the best out of the two test bricks we got from Whiddons--2 of those 10 were good the other 8 were not--also tested some Polar Biathlon today as it is about all the Lapua in stock at the moment---Picked the lot number as last three digits were same as a great muscle car engine--it shot like you would expect--very well.
After this upcoming 2 day match we will see and go from there.
I and Dallas Walker cleaned after every match . Shooters choice nylon brush only then dry patch . Older Winchester 52 don’t remove lead I do the same on all my Remington 541also . I can shoot 10 or x very consistent.
TRSR8
Silver $$ Contributor
The shear magnitude of errors here is breathtaking.
Friend, most good shooters, shooting barrels in matches, factory or otherwise clean them on a regular basis and rarely take more than a few shots to come right in.
If that doesn’t work….you have a bad barrel.
As far as factory barrels always beyond spec……have somebody teach you all about CZ barrels.
Rampsey
Silver $$ Contributor
Lol
If you read and comprehend what my comment was?
I specifically stated, a good barrel, typically custom hand lapped barrels, only need 2-5 shots after cleaning
And CZ?
I quit wasting my money on theyre 22s twenty years ago whan half the price savages time and time again out performance thier barrels.
There is a reason CZ dominates factory class.
Because all other quality rifles aren't allowed to shoot factory class.
Kinda stacked the deck I guess you call it.
I've slugged most of my factory barrels and they're all about the same size as the custom barrels I have. The CZ I have is a little tighter but not much. As I mentioned earlier in this thread. None of my factory barrels require more than a few rounds for them to start shooting well. I used a T1x and 452 American in ARA factory class and they acted just like my Shliens do. 1 round down the bore after cleaning and then on to a sighter and they're shooting right where they should be. I'd shoot at least 5 sighters before goint for score but that was usually to make sure I had a handle on the conditions.
I've tried the no cleaning thing and it never worked out for the better for me. As I also said already. If someone wants to shoot a bunch of ammo after they clean then that's their call. If they feel it makes their gun shoot better and they feel better about it then have at it
There are a lot of CZs on the line in factory class. But they don't dominate anymore. I'm not going to count but there's quite a few B-14Rs in that list from the 2024 ARA outdoor nationals. Only see two Savage rifles near the bottom. I'm actually just ribbing you about the Savages. I'm pretty sure they're plenty competitive for ARA factory class with good ammo and a good shooter. The target was designed to be shot with everyday squirrel rifles.
Rampsey
Silver $$ Contributor
Have you looked at CZ rifles finish machine work lol.
I have nooo idea how they shoot as well as they do.
Yeh I know arent many savage competitors.
But we both know shooting has a whole bunch of fans and fan boys it goes thru cycles
It's all good as long as everyone's shooting tho.
The bore on my 452 American is actually pretty good once you get passed the smeary leade haha. The bore on my T1x is good but, again, there's some chatter and some smearing in the leade. Most of my recent manufacture factory barrels have inperfections here and there. Except my two Anschutz. They're both great but we also pay a lot more for those too
Rampsey
Silver $$ Contributor
But here we are once again.
Doesn't Anschutz advertise "Lapped" barrels on all they're rifles?
They used to.
Which would account for smoother cleaner bores.
They're all a crap shoot.
Until you shoot them.
Clean , Dirty, I don't know.
Had a 69a winchester and a 52b sporter. Same vintage.
The 52s were all hand lapped to finish during production.
None of thier other rifles were, rimfire or centerfire with the only exception the model 70 "Target"
But anyways .the 68a definitely absolutely required frequent cleaning to be consistent on the bench.
None, of my 52s have ever shown a preference other than the few initial shots thru a clean bore.
But 100 or 2000 rounds later they still scored the same and stay in the running.
TRSR8
Silver $$ Contributor
Apparently, there’s you…..then there’s about 1/2 of the top ARA factory shooters.
I believe that’s game….set….and match.
Rampsey
Silver $$ Contributor
Funny you bring that up as I know a couple ranking ones myself .
And several have and will not shoot more than maybe 50 rounds without a patch down the bore.
And thier reply when I ask when accuracy starts to fall off , how many rounds?
Each and every one ses
"I don't know because I ALWAYS clean after each card"
Sooo
It's more a habit than proven detriment.
Hi-NV Shooter
Gold $$ Contributor
That is very interesting, I didn't know the old Win 52's were hand lapped. I always heard that the reason most didn't shoot well brand new was because of the leade needing some rounds to smooth out the machine marks. or as some say letting mother nature do its thing.
Lee
Hi-NV Shooter
Gold $$ Contributor
Something to consider, if you let the cleaning be done as accuracy falls off what happens if during a match you shoot more rounds that put you past that round count and then you scores go down.
that's why most will clean or do what they consider needed after every target.
Lee
TRSR8
Silver $$ Contributor
Pretty easy Lee. You’d think some would realize lots of top guys do things because it’s a tried and true methodology.
Yeah when it's actually a missed condition that caused the lower score on the target and not cleaning the barrel enough.
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