TRSR8
Silver $$ Contributor
So you actually believe that carbon ring forms nice and uniform in a chamber?
Study up there champion.
ARA SHOOTERS--QUESTION ABOUT CLEANING FREQUENCY
- Thread starter dusterdave173
- Start date
Study up there champion.
dusterdave173
Silver $$ Contributor
OK So....Yesterday we laid over 380 rounds on top of the just under 200 I had run without cleaning--after the 200 I cleaned the carbon ring and chamber with C4--One dry patch down the bore
As shooting progressed so did the consistency --and accuracy--It IS on the way back. At the end of the session yesterday the rifle was doing really really well. It seems to require several "warm ups" to settle down but then as long as you stay with it the groups just keep coming--when I would stop to reload mags, get some water, jawbone a little with my pal--it seemed to need a couple to get back in the groove again--That seems a little weird but the pattern persisted all day long. At sessions end the rifle was shooting winning cards again and again. I did run a Dry patch every 125 or so--it would need a handful of sighters to settle back to work.
We plan an indoor test tomorrow --so the big question is--Leave it alone and just start that testing or clean that ring / chamber then start? I am leaning on not touching it and just see what happens.
I am so encouraged by the "come back" yesterday--I feel like I could shoot a match right now and be Way better off than I was before
So far it just looks like I was cleaning the seasoning out of the barrel with the Rimfire Blend--again my thoughts at that time were starting clean was going to be the most consistent from match to match---and I got more in the weeds when as I would shoot a 5 card it did not improve--I think now looking at last two tests that is was "jumpy" with more and more rounds to a certain point then it started just plain Hammering--it needed that amount of rounds to get the barrel back to a sweet spot.
Now how long will that last? How long until carbon ring starts to screw me ? I will find out--taking another brick tomorrow and shooting indoors.
As shooting progressed so did the consistency --and accuracy--It IS on the way back. At the end of the session yesterday the rifle was doing really really well. It seems to require several "warm ups" to settle down but then as long as you stay with it the groups just keep coming--when I would stop to reload mags, get some water, jawbone a little with my pal--it seemed to need a couple to get back in the groove again--That seems a little weird but the pattern persisted all day long. At sessions end the rifle was shooting winning cards again and again. I did run a Dry patch every 125 or so--it would need a handful of sighters to settle back to work.
We plan an indoor test tomorrow --so the big question is--Leave it alone and just start that testing or clean that ring / chamber then start? I am leaning on not touching it and just see what happens.
I am so encouraged by the "come back" yesterday--I feel like I could shoot a match right now and be Way better off than I was before
So far it just looks like I was cleaning the seasoning out of the barrel with the Rimfire Blend--again my thoughts at that time were starting clean was going to be the most consistent from match to match---and I got more in the weeds when as I would shoot a 5 card it did not improve--I think now looking at last two tests that is was "jumpy" with more and more rounds to a certain point then it started just plain Hammering--it needed that amount of rounds to get the barrel back to a sweet spot.
Now how long will that last? How long until carbon ring starts to screw me ? I will find out--taking another brick tomorrow and shooting indoors.
Hi-NV Shooter
Gold $$ Contributor
As John said. let the barrel tell you what it wants. clean if needed every card or every 50+ rounds. Best gauge on when to clean, the target results.
there is no set rule on this, only the barrel will know!
Lee
there is no set rule on this, only the barrel will know!
Lee
dusterdave173
Silver $$ Contributor
Will do! As you know Eugene has never shot a match in his life--we took him to his first a local two card where they only count your best one--With a new MTR I had scoped and put maybe 200 rounds down--That nut sat there and won the match 250 with 22 X!! Now that was best edge scoring but still---He is Hooked!
Hope you boys in Florida recover from the storm! It blew a giant Hickory down here--I have so much Hickory now I might have to build a pig cooker It took a couple of weeks to cut and split it all
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dusterdave173
Silver $$ Contributor
So do you remember when you were kids and Mom would say OK tomorrow you have to play outside all day--I am stripping the floors! I think mom must have used Rimfire Blend
dusterdave173
Silver $$ Contributor
Well like I said it was a local club not an ARA shoot so they were using the you nick it you get it scoring system but still it was using the ARA Factory target so ...still some good shooting and as matter of fact he placed second in another class that same day
Attachments
I don't find Rimfire Blend to be any stronger than any of the other general cleaners I've used over the years. I used CLP for a long time and I'll probably go back to it at some point. It gets the basic fouling out just as well IMO.
Factory or unlimited? What bench are you shooting on?
dusterdave173
Silver $$ Contributor
OK Tested indoors again today
approx 780 rounds since barrel was cleaned with Rimfire Blend chamber only cleaned once midway or so with C4 Here are my ideas and conclusions
With two of our CZ MTR's we started cleaning very well with Rimfore Blend ( I think any cleaner would have been similar ) We Thought that even with our factory barrels that Clean at start of each match would be good and repeatable--we got so far off in the weeds--lost matches--some mid pack finishes but overall poor results compared to where we had been. We struggled--much conversation with other shooters and one guy local with an MTR that had been having similar problems--and after some ideas on this thread--we decided that we were stripping our barrels of the much needed "seasoning"--we fixed this by shooting almost 800 rounds of same brand and lube ammo--cleaned the chamber once during--nothing but one dry patch maybe two down the bore with No cleaner down the bore--about midway through this the barrel started shooting again--after a little over 500 it got better--Today after near 800 it was shooting really great!! It shot great with three lots of ammo--all it got was one dry patch every 50-100 rounds--after each of those it shot better and kept improving.
It did take a lot of sighters to "warm up" the barrel before it wanted to really work maybe as many as 6-8--If we took long to talk or load magazines--it would need more foulers to get back in the groove maybe 2-4 or so. This pattern repeated with Both rifles--as long as we were warmed up and kept a steady pace the rifles just kept nailing the 10 ring. That "pace" seemed very important to maintain the 10's and X's
So--I am headed out to do the chamber and carbon ring- with Boretech C4-will push two dry down the pipe and I will be ready for my next match .
Your results may vary --this has been one guys experience. When it all goes South on me I will know how many is too many without some cleaner down the bore but so far I doubt that day will be anytime soon.
Thanks to ALL here for the interest and advice
Extra thumbs up to Jepp2 for the link --It seemed dead on to us !!! Appreciate your Help !!!
approx 780 rounds since barrel was cleaned with Rimfire Blend chamber only cleaned once midway or so with C4 Here are my ideas and conclusions
With two of our CZ MTR's we started cleaning very well with Rimfore Blend ( I think any cleaner would have been similar ) We Thought that even with our factory barrels that Clean at start of each match would be good and repeatable--we got so far off in the weeds--lost matches--some mid pack finishes but overall poor results compared to where we had been. We struggled--much conversation with other shooters and one guy local with an MTR that had been having similar problems--and after some ideas on this thread--we decided that we were stripping our barrels of the much needed "seasoning"--we fixed this by shooting almost 800 rounds of same brand and lube ammo--cleaned the chamber once during--nothing but one dry patch maybe two down the bore with No cleaner down the bore--about midway through this the barrel started shooting again--after a little over 500 it got better--Today after near 800 it was shooting really great!! It shot great with three lots of ammo--all it got was one dry patch every 50-100 rounds--after each of those it shot better and kept improving.
It did take a lot of sighters to "warm up" the barrel before it wanted to really work maybe as many as 6-8--If we took long to talk or load magazines--it would need more foulers to get back in the groove maybe 2-4 or so. This pattern repeated with Both rifles--as long as we were warmed up and kept a steady pace the rifles just kept nailing the 10 ring. That "pace" seemed very important to maintain the 10's and X's
So--I am headed out to do the chamber and carbon ring- with Boretech C4-will push two dry down the pipe and I will be ready for my next match .
Your results may vary --this has been one guys experience. When it all goes South on me I will know how many is too many without some cleaner down the bore but so far I doubt that day will be anytime soon.
Thanks to ALL here for the interest and advice
Extra thumbs up to Jepp2 for the link --It seemed dead on to us !!! Appreciate your Help !!!
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Shooting at Gateway, bench #6. Factory class.Factory or unlimited? What bench are you shooting on?
Dave, if that works for you then stay at it. If I had a rifle that took 500-800 rounds to get it to shoot properly, it would go down the road and I would be starting over. I went through 5 CZ 452’s until I found one that suited me.
Having to shoot that many rounds tells me the barrel is not all that great. I shoot factory barreled rifles, I always start from clean, it takes 12-15 warm up rounds to get it to settle down. A good custom barrel takes 4-8 rounds to settle down. Starting from clean makes the results predictable, also when testing ammo, it’s easy to tell which lots work the best. JMO
Having to shoot that many rounds tells me the barrel is not all that great. I shoot factory barreled rifles, I always start from clean, it takes 12-15 warm up rounds to get it to settle down. A good custom barrel takes 4-8 rounds to settle down. Starting from clean makes the results predictable, also when testing ammo, it’s easy to tell which lots work the best. JMO
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dusterdave173
Silver $$ Contributor
The rifle has 4 wins, 8 second place and 3 third place this year--it had dropped to mid pack finishes and that is the reason I went to work on it--just learning as I go. 22 is a tricky game --I am in my first year with it
Scores are a much better indicator of how a rifle is performing than match placements.
TRSR8
Silver $$ Contributor
New(ish) factory shooters seem to be all over the place regarding cleaning.
Long term competitors, especially those with a solid record, tend, very much to be pretty consistent in their approach. While factory guys deal with factory barrels, many feel “ a good barrel is a good barrel”, in regard to what’s required.
The old “ I read it on the internet” process seems alive and well in addition to a bunch that may ultimately prove to be a lability.
P.S. To those who love to follow the practice promoted in the above referenced article….there is a lot of flat wrong stuff there.
It’s entire purpose intended for more predictable “ cold bore” shots in long range where no sighters permitted. Zero bearing on RFBR.
Remember, this is the fellow from Vudoo showing you how to clean….without a boreguide.
No thanks.
Long term competitors, especially those with a solid record, tend, very much to be pretty consistent in their approach. While factory guys deal with factory barrels, many feel “ a good barrel is a good barrel”, in regard to what’s required.
The old “ I read it on the internet” process seems alive and well in addition to a bunch that may ultimately prove to be a lability.
P.S. To those who love to follow the practice promoted in the above referenced article….there is a lot of flat wrong stuff there.
It’s entire purpose intended for more predictable “ cold bore” shots in long range where no sighters permitted. Zero bearing on RFBR.
Remember, this is the fellow from Vudoo showing you how to clean….without a boreguide.
No thanks.
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dusterdave173
Silver $$ Contributor
CharlieNC
Gold $$ Contributor
A good commentary on positive results from doing your own evaluation vs just following the crowd.
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