AR Comp burn rate chart?

[Rtheurer]

Has anyone come upon a burn rate chart with AR Comp listed on it yet. I just spent 45 min looking at every tab on the Alliant web site to no avail.

Im guessing it falls right in with Varget R15, IMR 4064, Norma 203B ect ect.

Also has anyone tried it with 77gr and 80 grain bullets in the 223 as used by most Service rifle shooters shooting NRA High Power? Again Alliant web site stops at 68gr Hornady bullets for there load recomendation.

RussT

 

[kentuckytroutbum]

Russ T-

My HP XTC loads for my 223 Service Rifle is:


Rifle: AR15 Service Rifle, 20" s/s 1:8 twist Satern barrel
Case: Winchester
Primer: WSR
Bullet: Hornady 75 HPBT or 75 A-max
23.4 grs AA2520
MV: 2662 fps at 10 ft, air temp was 80 deg. F.
COAL: 2.365" (exceeds magazine length)
0.015" off the lands
ES=52 fps
SD=17 fps

80 gr. Sierras & Bergers did not give me the accuracy at 600 yds that I was looking for. Each rifle is different.

Although the ES & SD are higher than I would like, this load is extremely accurate at 600 yds. Low ES & SD are supposedly the"holy grail" of reloaders, but I'm not convinced 100%. German Salazar recently made the comment on one of his blogs that his most accurate & consistant loads in his 30/06 & .308 did not have the lowest ES & SD. Go figure.

As usual, the warnings about working up loads in your rifle applies.

Bill

 

[Rtheurer]

Thanks Bill

I take it you have not tried the new Alliant AR comp Powder?

You can have pretty big ES for 200 and 300 yards and not know the diffrence. It will still shoot pretty good. At LONG Range it is imparative. Long Range as described by the NRA is 800 to 1000 yards.

RussT

 

[flatlander]

Russ,
One of our members here mentioned using Alliant PowerPro 2000MR in a 223 bolt rifle with Berger 90s. I'm a bit tired of paying Viht's prices for N550, so ordered up an 8lb jug of the 2000. Hoping to find that it works as well with 77s & 80s as their AR Comp is supposed to...will keep you in the loop when I've got it and found the time to get some loaded & fired over the chrono.

BTW, the hard drive in my old desktop crashed late last week, and I'm not sure whether I'll be able to recover any data (incl. my address book). You might want to send me an e-mail so I'll have your address.

 

[Hoot]

I emailed ATK a few weeks ago requesting either a QL compatible powder file for AR-Comp or fill-in-the-blanks for the fields in QL for powder characteristics. The contact person offered to work up some loads, but I explained that I enjoy doing that myself and in the case of my .300 OSSM (WSSM) loaded to 2.40 COL, I doubted they had that platform to work with. I asked him to ask around among the Engineers as surely one of them dabbles in QL. His last email was to say that one of the Engineers thought they had submitted the data to Hartmut.

An email to Ed at NECO inquiring if he had heard anything of a pending update that included AR-Comp and he said that Hartut had not mentioned having gotten anything from ATK recently. So much for ATK giving you a straight story or any help. They do have a few recipes posted for common calibers and bullets. I've tried reverse massaging QL to try and find a powder that I could modify the properties to yield similar results and I have not had much success. From my results with my quirky .300 OSSM, which I might mention seems like a perfect match for the powder given it's behavior with 8208, H4895, RL15 and Varget over different weight bullets, the closest analog performance wise is velocity like that predicted for N530 and resulting pressure like N540.

Not sure if that helps. I also would like to get more information on AR-Comp and the MR family.

Hoot

 

[kentuckytroutbum]

Thanks Bill

I take it you have not tried the new Alliant AR comp Powder?

You can have pretty big ES for 200 and 300 yards and not know the diffrence. It will still shoot pretty good. At LONG Range it is imparative. Long Range as described by the NRA is 800 to 1000 yards.

RussT

Russ-

AR Comp sounds promising, but I've not found it in stores in the Dallas area. And I haven't look on-line yet.

I haven't tried my 600 yd. load at 800 or 1000 yds, but I believe that if it is accurate at 600, it should be accurate at 800+, provided it hasn't fallen in to the transonic range. For my 223, I only ran JBM Ballistics out to 650 yds.For NRA LR, I would want a different caliber, probably 6.5 or 30 cal. with high BC bullets.

Bill

 

[Hoot]

[quote author=kentuckytroutbum]
AR Comp sounds promising, but I've not found it in stores in the Dallas area. And I haven't look on-line yet...snip
[/quote]

I got an 8lb keg from Grafs for around $180 delivered.

Hoot

 

[Rtheurer]

Hoot

Thanks for the reply. I just recieved a Quick Load program and am playing around with it and still learning how to use it. Unfortunatly like you Im looking for data on new powders not in the program. Leverevalution ( which showed alot of promise in 308 Palma 155 loadings) AR comp, and Super performance.

Dennis

Boy am I behind I havnt even heard of MR2000 yet. Must have missed that one. rest assured Ill be checking it out right now. Ill send an email, good to hear from ya again.


Bill
Shootin a 223 at 1000 yards for a MATCH is alot of work. Ive been forced to do that with a Service rifle back around 2004 and 2005. Hated every minute of it. If I had a 1000 yard range in my back yard I may shoot it for fun, but since I have to drive a few hours to shoot long range ill stick to my Loang Range prone guns and palma rifle. I like to shoot 200's and its almost impossable to do that with a AR15 223 service rifle. or at least it is for me.

 

[Hoot]

Here's a link to some AR-Comp Recipes on the Alliant web site for some popular calibers. Compare some of those velocities to what you can achieve with mainstream powders and you'll notice that there's some increase available. Now as to what impact that has upon accuracy or pressure level for your particular rifle, remains to be seen.

Hoot

Edit: a big factor in choosing this powder is the claim by ATK that it is temp stable from -20 to +160 F. Up here in MN, that's a big plus for hunting.

 

[Rtheurer]

Hoot

I see it now. Had to dig a little deeper. As Dennis mentioned the 2000MR looks promising as well. So Im going out on a limb here. When I read MADE in the USA Spherical powder, I read that as meaning St Marks? Also combined with canister powder that gives Factory Cartridge performance. Ie St Marks.

Intresting.

I wish we had St Marks Bulk Supplier of powder in our Quick Load program also.

RussT

 

[syant]

Definitely late to this party, but found this thread when searching for same answer. Later found answer I was looking for so though I'd post here in case anyone else ended up here to the same reason. Came from the Accurate Shooter Daily Bulletin. http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2011/03/new-ar-comp-powder-from-alliant-details-revealed/

"Burn Rate Like Varget: Though this is a reformulation of Reloder 15, the burn rate of AR-Comp is slightly faster than Reloder 15. Alliant told us: “Reloder 15 is slightly slower, in burn rate, than Varget. The new AR-Comp, with the enhancements, ended up slightly faster than Reloder 15, so it is now very close to Varget in burn rate”. This is the result of the “tuning” of the powder to be much less temp-sensitive."

 

[FatBoy]

I tried rl15, ar comp and mr2000 back to back at the range with 77smks and 80smks. No chrono at this point, just looking for 100y groups and brass signs (pressure, etc).

In my rifles, one 20" 1:7 SR and a 1:7 24" match rifle, RL15 and MR 2000 grouped exactly the same and at 100/200 and there were no pressure signs. The AR Comp had noticeably higher recoil with the same load and bad deep swiping on the case head.

If I was just dropping powder I would do more work with the mr2000 to see what es/SD looked like. Otherwise, rl15 or VarGet it is...

 

[flatlander]

Chris,
I've shot a fair amount of 2000MR through my M700 223AI with Berger 90VLDs. Getting 2835 avg vel out of a 26" Krieger 1-7 twist, and several 5" 5-shot groups at 1000yds. Just lucky, since I didn't spec the freebore of the reamer, but I get that accuracy with rounds seated to mag length for AI plastic 10rd mags. It works just as well with Berger's 90 LRBTs, but they discontinued them more than a year ago.

 

[scott_at_vortex]

Chris,
I've shot a fair amount of 2000MR through my M700 223AI with Berger 90VLDs. Getting 2835 avg vel out of a 26" Krieger 1-7 twist, and several 5" 5-shot groups at 1000yds. Just lucky, since I didn't spec the freebore of the reamer, but I get that accuracy with rounds seated to mag length for AI plastic 10rd mags. It works just as well with Berger's 90 LRBTs, but they discontinued them more than a year ago.

How many gr of 2000mr are you using? You can pm it to me if you dont want to post it.

Thank you
Scott

 

[Alliant Reloading]

I see this is an old resurrected thread, but to answer the original question, AR-Comp(TM) is slightly faster burning than Reloder(R) 15. We thought it would be about Varget burn speed, but it is a little faster burning still. It seems to have settled right on the IMR 4895 burn speed.
Thanks for your interest.
Paul

 

[FatBoy]

I see this is an old resurrected thread, but to answer the original question, AR-Comp(TM) is slightly faster burning than Reloder(R) 15. We thought it would be about Varget burn speed, but it is a little faster burning still. It seems to have settled right on the IMR 4895 burn speed.
Thanks for your interest.
Paul

This makes sense, as 24gr of Varget, RL15 or MR2000 give me roughly the same MV (77smks), with Varget just starting to give me pressure signs. I fought using rl15 for 12 years. Now I have 9# just for ARs I auto measure powder but the MR really showed promise and I think if it is acts like rl15 when it's hot out (not sure with surface area) and stays as clean it is going to get real popular eventually.