kind of curious about this one. been thinking about building a rifle for FT/R. anyone use an ar-15 for FT/R? if i were to get a billet upper with side bolt, long barrel (26-28 inches) with a 7" twist and an adjustable gas block to single shot the rifle. good components on the rest of the build. long throat for 90 bergers. the reason i am thinking of this is that i can build it myself vs having a good smith do a bolt action build.
ar-15 for FT/R anyone?
- Thread starter cmillard
- Start date
Minesweeper3433
45B/91F
At the club matchs at Gateway here in FL they do it all the time. In fact there are more AR15s being shot than bolt guns.
If I absolutely HAD to go with a .223 (versus a .308) for F-tr; I'd go with the Savage LRPV with the 1:7 twist heavy barrel. Wait a minute, I did go that route to start off with! ;D
However, I quickly learned that to be competitive at "long range" where I shoot (Butner, NC), I needed to have a custom .308 rifle built by a competent smith. So, IMHO, if you want to shoot just-for-fun, a purpose built AR may fit the bill. If you want to compete at a high level, AR's are not the best option for F-tr.
However, I quickly learned that to be competitive at "long range" where I shoot (Butner, NC), I needed to have a custom .308 rifle built by a competent smith. So, IMHO, if you want to shoot just-for-fun, a purpose built AR may fit the bill. If you want to compete at a high level, AR's are not the best option for F-tr.
Killshot
X's matter....but 10s win (but damn, Xs feel good)
Sure you can! I've enjoyed using my White Oak in F/TR.
So much so, I had Whitley build for me a 6ARturbo40º that I shoot in Open.
Not sure how well a self-build would perform but the ones I have are pretty competitive. It takes some work to make a consistent half-moa AR.
So much so, I had Whitley build for me a 6ARturbo40º that I shoot in Open.
Not sure how well a self-build would perform but the ones I have are pretty competitive. It takes some work to make a consistent half-moa AR.
Well, as we've talked on the phone, I think you are spot on. You can build some damn fine shooting AR's!!! The long throat is the key I believe, and once you get that done I think it'll be a winner.
rcw3
Site $$ Sponsor
Cole
Just one suggestion - bag the adjustable gas block idea if you want consistency. There is no gas valve system that will be 100% consistent and reliable over time like a conventional gas block, and in accuracy work consistency is where it's at. The internals of an adjustable gas block valve system are subjected to high pressure gas with particulate matter within it (i.e. like being sand blasted inside every time you shoot it) and no valve system like that can withstand that and remain consistent over time. People also seem to be under the impression that if you shut the gas system off on an AR it will be more accurate and that is not really true. The gas system has pluses, and one huge plus is it acts as an internal muzzle brake and reduces recoil significantly, and from that perspective it can be better for accuracy work (especially from a rest or bipod as in F/TR). An AR has an aluminum upper and lower connected with push pins and reduced recoil is beneficial for the accuracy of that set up as well. In addition, it's hard to cycle an AR by hand after it's been fired, especially with a .223 shooting big 90's where pressured loads cannot be avoided.
In all the testing work I have done with AR's, I never found them to be definitively more accurate shutting the gas system off. When you shut the gas system off, it also changes the point of impact of the rifle, and loads that work with the system on don't always shoot well with it off (i.e. one load when it's on, one load when it's off, one zero when it's on, one zero when it's off - makes life complicated and is a recipe for mistakes and problems).
If it were me, I would set up the rifle with a clamp-on gas block, port the barrel correctly (i.e. not over ported) and spend the time finding the best and most accurate loads you can work up with it and discovering the best techniques to shoot it accurately from a rest or bipod. For F/TR work, leave some "meat" on the barrel (like 1" dia. under the hand guard and .920" in front of the gas block).
Just my 2 cents on that.
Robert Whitley
Just one suggestion - bag the adjustable gas block idea if you want consistency. There is no gas valve system that will be 100% consistent and reliable over time like a conventional gas block, and in accuracy work consistency is where it's at. The internals of an adjustable gas block valve system are subjected to high pressure gas with particulate matter within it (i.e. like being sand blasted inside every time you shoot it) and no valve system like that can withstand that and remain consistent over time. People also seem to be under the impression that if you shut the gas system off on an AR it will be more accurate and that is not really true. The gas system has pluses, and one huge plus is it acts as an internal muzzle brake and reduces recoil significantly, and from that perspective it can be better for accuracy work (especially from a rest or bipod as in F/TR). An AR has an aluminum upper and lower connected with push pins and reduced recoil is beneficial for the accuracy of that set up as well. In addition, it's hard to cycle an AR by hand after it's been fired, especially with a .223 shooting big 90's where pressured loads cannot be avoided.
In all the testing work I have done with AR's, I never found them to be definitively more accurate shutting the gas system off. When you shut the gas system off, it also changes the point of impact of the rifle, and loads that work with the system on don't always shoot well with it off (i.e. one load when it's on, one load when it's off, one zero when it's on, one zero when it's off - makes life complicated and is a recipe for mistakes and problems).
If it were me, I would set up the rifle with a clamp-on gas block, port the barrel correctly (i.e. not over ported) and spend the time finding the best and most accurate loads you can work up with it and discovering the best techniques to shoot it accurately from a rest or bipod. For F/TR work, leave some "meat" on the barrel (like 1" dia. under the hand guard and .920" in front of the gas block).
Just my 2 cents on that.
Robert Whitley
rcw3
Site $$ Sponsor
cmillard said:
Cole
If I was doing an F/TR build up in .223 or F-Class with any of the 6mm's we make, I would not move the gas port out (i.e. enables you to run with a much smaller port in the barrel than if you move to port out and that has advantages too) and I would run with a 24" - 26" barrel (I would favor a 25" - 26" barrel) mainly because that will get you most all the velocity you will get out of it (considering the cartridge, bullet, and the burn rate of powders used) yet keep a stout, stiff and rigid upper. This has nothing to do with how long a barrel one can run off a heavy walled upper receiver, it's more a matter of the best balance of things and optimizing the upper for the intended use. We make a fair amount of high power and prone uppers with 28" and 30" barrels (mainly for sight radius) and they run excellent for high power and prone use but I would not favor them off a rest or a bipod because they tend to be more whippy (which is not so much an issue when you are slung in, but is more so when running off a bipod or rest).
Like all things, there are pluses and minuses and a blanket rule (i.e. moving the gas port out or longer barrel) is not always "better" (nor is a bigger gas port in the barrel "better", and one must do that when one moves the port out).
We don't sell our billet upper receivers separately as parts. Maybe someday, but we're not really in the parts business (at least not yet).
Good luck with your build up!
Robert
My family has been competing with CLE 20" ARs for a while and they do quite well. But we all know the 223REM is a "challenged"cartridge. I love the cartridge, but want to maximize its potential. So, I just received a 223 bolt and will be putting a 30" barrel on my tubegun. That should be fun. 
Robert,
I would support that. I shot a Southern Gun Company SSR-15 (ambidextrous manual operation AR15 as we're not allowed semi-auto centrefires in the UK) for two or three seasons in the early days of F Class, pre F/TR introduction, at all ranges up to 1,000yd. As this was also pre 90s and today's Berger high-BC 80s, I loaded 80gn Sierra MKs over Re15 and VarGet. The limiting factor, even in a rifle built for manual operation and with a large purpose designed handle bolted to the carrier was the effort required to open the bolt with suitably warm loads.
It actually worked quite well given the much lower standards and competition of the time and we still used standard 2-MOA bull NRA targets too. One problem at 900 and 1,000yd on a range where the butts crews can't see the backstop sand to spot bullet strikes was the little bullets - now well and truly subsonic so no 'crack' - didn't catch the markers' attention. I kept losing the shooting rhythm by having to twist round and shout to the RCO to have my target pulled. It was fun though in that lots of people didn't believe you could reach a 1,000yd target back then never mind shoot into 'the black' with the .223.
effendude
Gold $$ Contributor
An AR-15 with a 24" or longer barrel is a great starter gun for F-class, but..... As Glen Zediker says, most AR's will easily shoot 1/2 to 3/4" groups at 100, but won't hold that same accuracy at 600 or beyond. They are a fun and easy way to get started in the sport, and I recommend it as a starter rifle if someone has an interest in F-class. Everyone needs at least one AR. Sorry, Laurie!
You will learn many valuable skills shooting the AR, but..... if you want to be competitive, and compete, you will eventually want a quality bolt rifle. Semi-autos seem to give up some consistency needed for longer ranges and the 1/2 MOA target.
Remember, F-class is a tougher target than Highpower.
Scott
You will learn many valuable skills shooting the AR, but..... if you want to be competitive, and compete, you will eventually want a quality bolt rifle. Semi-autos seem to give up some consistency needed for longer ranges and the 1/2 MOA target.
Remember, F-class is a tougher target than Highpower.
Scott
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