• This Forum is for adults 18 years of age or over. By continuing to use this Forum you are confirming that you are 18 or older. No content shall be viewed by any person under 18 in California.

AR-15 brass- does 5 thousands of an inch in case length effect accuracy much

I started trimming my brass for my AR-15 to 1.755", after trimming about 100 brass some of the once fired brass have a length of 1.75". Does the 5 thousands make much difference in accuracy ( I'm not competing)
or should I re-trim the 100 brass to 1.75". My goal is to shoot 1" groups at 100 yards from my stag M4 with the standard 20 " barrel.
 
While keeping them the same is definitely the best practice,I doubt you will see a difference with the type of shooting you are doing.
I made a mistake while fireforming for my Dasher. I used some 105's for the first group and then went to a 70 gr bullet for the next group to save a little on bullets.There was about .008 difference in length. I just put them in separate batches and as the short ones grow they are put in the other batch. I use the short ones to sight in and as backup. I really can not tell any difference in how they shoot, but I still feel better keeping them separate for matches.
 
As long as they are reasonably close in length, and not TOO long, you should be just fine. I do believe however that anything you can do to make the cases all the same, can only help. You can reload .223/5.56 quite a few times before trimming. I monitor them, and when they start getting close to 1.760" after f/l sizing, the whole batch gets trimmed back to 1.750" and chamfered. The cases will not all grow at the same rate so just pick a point where the majority are getting long. Try to keep your reloaded ammo in 100 rd. batches or what have you, to make it easier to monitor the cases. You should be able to shoot 1 MOA with any ol' ammo, but once you start shooting .5 MOA with quality reloads, your goals may change! :)
 
I think I will re-trim the 100 brass that is trimmed to 1.755" so I can match the brass that is already 1.75", so they will all be the same, I agree that consistancy is important for accuracy. I just didn't think I could expect much more than 1" groups at 100 yards out of my Stag M4 with a standard 20 " 1-9 twist barrel. If
I had a heavy stainless match barrel, I could expect to shoot .5 MOA or better. That's why I didn't think the 5 thousands difference in case length would change point of impact much at 100 yards, but I might as well do what I can to get the most out of the rifle that I have.
 
I still have some brass that is 1.755" and 1.75" . I loaded some of each, and I've been waiting for the 40 mph wind gusts that we've had for the last couple days to die down so I can go to the range and see if the 5 thousands in case length makes a difference in accuracy at 100 yards. It sounds like we will still have the winds tomorrow. Hopefully I can go on Friday.
 
Short Range,

Not a bit. Trim length is a safety issue, and has little effect on accuracy, so long as we're talking about small amounts (and this qualifies). Just don't let them exceed 1.760" and you'll be good.

Your accuracy goal of MOA should be no problem, so long as you've got a decent barrel and feed it good quality ammunition.
 
Just opened new box of Lapua brass and every one is 1.750" is no problem like everyone said, 1.760" is max. need to correct if over.
 
KevinThomas said:
Short Range,

Not a bit. Trim length is a safety issue, and has little effect on accuracy, so long as we're talking about small amounts (and this qualifies). Just don't let them exceed 1.760" and you'll be good.

Your accuracy goal of MOA should be no problem, so long as you've got a decent barrel and feed it good quality ammunition.

Hi Kevin, I just have the standard Stag 20 " 1-9 twist barrel, so I'll have to see how well I can get it to shoot. I know if I had a heavy match barrel it could shoot 1/2" or better groups. I have a couple bolt action rifles that I can shoot sub 1/2" groups , so this AR I'm leaving it the way I bought it. I think it should be able to shoot at least 1" groups at 100 yards.
 
Sorry guys I had to leave the computer before I could finish, how many times can you trim a case is recommended, just to trim a case to min. every time is that a extra trim that would count if you have a limit.
 
I think I will re-trim the 100 brass that is trimmed to 1.755" so I can match the brass that is already 1.75", so they will all be the same, I agree that consistancy is important for accuracy. I just didn't think I could expect much more than 1" groups at 100 yards out of my Stag M4 with a standard 20 " 1-9 twist barrel. If
I had a heavy stainless match barrel, I could expect to shoot .5 MOA or better. That's why I didn't think the 5 thousands difference in case length would change point of impact much at 100 yards, but I might as well do what I can to get the most out of the rifle that I have.
Your existing 20" 1-9" barrel and rifle can likely be "improved" to shoot .5 moa or better. I have built a lot of target and long-range varmint A/R's, but have also made some 20" 1-8 and 1-9 twist models. Here are some of the more noteworthy things for accuracy that you can do to your A/R:

1) Replace the trigger if it is over 4 or 5 pounds with a 2 1/2-3 lb. trigger. I'd not try to adjust to 2 pounds or under as you risk multi-shot bursts. This lighter trigger alone can see instant improvement to all loads.
2) Focus on a bullet in the 50-52 grain weight range. Me - I'd start with something like a 52-grain target bullet. Do not choose lead-tipped bullets. Use either hollow point or tipped bullets, with tipped being the best in an A/R. While that 1-9" twist will stabilize heavier bullets - start with the 52.
3) I'd be looking at trying these powders in this order (unless you have some of these already): Accurate LT32, Reloader 7, IMR8208XBR, TAC. There are LOTS of great .223 powders - but this is just where I start after having seen what worked best, most often, in a number of A/R's shooting the 50-grain range of bullets. There is no one "wonder powder", but I'd start with LT32.
4) Eliminate "slop" between the upper and lower receivers. There are devices one can buy to prevent this. Even the little $5.00 plastic "bumper" helps. Rattles and vibrations on the rifle are not good.
6) Replace the mainspring with a Wolff reduced power mainspring when shooting the 52-and-under weight bullets. You will likely get better results than using the stock spring which is designed for shooting any heavy bullet someone might put in the rifle.
7) Make sure your brass shoulders are only being bumped NO MORE than .003"-.004". This is HUGE!
8) Check your feed lips and bevel at the entrance of your chamber. If they have sharp edges on them, use a Dremel tool or such to abrade and polish the rough edges till they are smooth where the bullet can better glide over them without deforming or slicing the bullet tips.
9) Grab your fore-end with one hand and the butt-stock with the other. See if there is any rotational slop or play in the vicinity of where barrel meets receiver. If there is, remove handguard and barrel, apply RED Lock Tite liberally to areas where there are spaces lacking contact, then reassemble. You will need a heat gun or torch to remove the handguard and barrel in the future if you do this. But it will greatly reduce or eliminate the accuracy-robbing chatter and vibration cause by this loose fit. On a few rifles, I actually used JB Weld to permanently fuse the upper receiver and barrel/barrel nut together for the life of the combined unit if the upper was notably loose. If you do that and your hand guard does not have a separate barrel nut, beware that your hand guard also becomes consumable, along with the upper receiver and the barrel. I could take it to a machinist to shave, in order to time the action to being tight when aligning with the next gas tube hole - but a "stripped" upper is pretty reasonable in cost and will be more solid and vibration free in this manner.
10) If you shoot off a bench, make or buy a fore-end sled to attach to the fore-end of the rifle that will allow the rifle to slide freely in the rest. I shoot my AR's off a toggle rest when varmint shooting. Greatly reducing rotational torque when a shot is fired is meaningful - just as it is in bench rest shooting. If I'm shooting off the bipod, I use a leather squeeze bag for the rear. Bench rest shooters don't put bipods on their rifles, but folks think nothing of doing so with an A/R shot off the bench. For a lighter rifle such as yours - maybe nice to be able to do both.

Regarding your trim length being .005" off with other cases - I'd just trim them all the same as you have started. Frankly, I've shot mixed lots that were .010"-.015" off from one another without seeing the type of accuracy change some might think would occur. Just thought I'd throw in the above info in case you had thoughts that an existing 20" standard M4-style A/R can't be made much better. There is a lot more that can be done - but these things should put you at or under 1/2" MOA with good loading practices. You don't need a terrific (or bull) barrel to get 1/2" in an A/R if your overall rifle and load is dialed in. Of course, powerful enough optics to shoot tiny groups is necessary. I'd not want anything less than 10x to 12x on the high end. On my target and varmint rifles, I have a minimum of 30x top-end.

Outside of the scope and trigger, all else noted is relatively inexpensive to do. If there is anything here that helps if you opt to tune that rifle, that is great.

Good Luck
 
I started trimming my brass for my AR-15 to 1.755", after trimming about 100 brass some of the once fired brass have a length of 1.75". Does the 5 thousands make much difference in accuracy ( I'm not competing)
or should I re-trim the 100 brass to 1.75". My goal is to shoot 1" groups at 100 yards from my stag M4 with the standard 20 " barrel.
One of the least important things we do for accuracy...AS LONG AS IT SHORT ENOUGH. Consistency is the rule but IME, this is an area that is quite forgiving.I beat a lot of people that trim after every firing. Lol! No harm in making things as perfect as possible but I'd look at other things first. It IS important for safety and accuracy that you don't let it get too long, though.
 

Upgrades & Donations

This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.


Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.

You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.


To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.

Forum statistics

Threads
165,441
Messages
2,195,228
Members
78,882
Latest member
FIDI_G
Back
Top