Anyone Tried the Berger Hybrid for Hunting Yet?

[Ledd Slinger]

walley2960,
The Berger 6.5 130 grain hybrid OTM tactical bullet can be used for hunting.
Leddslinger,
Uniforming (trimming) the MEPLAT on the 6mm 105 hybrids MAY not help because of the thicker jacket . Our bullets do not function like standard hollow point hunting bullets. Our bullets are designed to penetrate 2-5 inches then the nose are of the bullet "slumps over" and then comes off forming shrapnel that shreds the vitals causing tremendous hydro-static shock to the animal and usually instant incapacitation and death. This is all due to the thinner jackets of the hunting bullets. HOWEVER, we are getting reports on some of our larger caliber hybrids like the .30 caliber 215 target hybrid and 230 grain OTM working with great success on game such as Elk, Mule Deer and even antelope in the western states. These bullets do leave a smaller wound channel than the hunting bullets and MAY pass through the game. We have not heard anything on the 6mm 105 hybrid working on game like the 215 and 230 grain bullets. The "milk jug" test MAY not be enough. You may want to find the recipe for ballistic gelatin and test with that instead. Please let us know the results you get with either hunting or gelatin tests.
You all have a great weekend!

Right, will do. Being that milk jugs with water are a good bit cheaper than ballistics gelatin, figure I'd start there. If there is little to no difference, then there would be no justification for the expense of the gelatin. If the difference is significant enough, then maybe further testing will be warranted. Thanks

 

[walley2960]

Led Slinger
Thanks for asking the question. It's something I have been curious about for some time. I might have to explore the terminal ballistics with you as well. Not that I have any special qualifications but, it's interesting. Seems like I've read something about shooting into wet newspaper. I have some ideas and at the moment, time.
I wonder how much impact velocity would effect the results?


barefooter56
Thank you for you response! It's a huge asset to have tech support available to us.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Led Slinger
Thanks for asking the question. It's something I have been curious about for some time. I might have to explore the terminal ballistics with you as well. Not that I have any special qualifications but, it's interesting. Seems like I've read something about shooting into wet newspaper. I have some ideas and at the moment, time.
I wonder how much impact velocity would effect the results?


barefooter56
Thank you for you response! It's a huge asset to have tech support available to us.

Impact velocity should definitely be a factor. The 6XC is fairly fast from what I've read, but I have not loaded or fired a round through my rifle yet. I plan on testing at 100 yards. Just gonna get it sighted in at 100 with some random load accurate enough to hit somewhere near the center of a line of milk jugs and see what happens. Not gonna develop an accurate load using the Hybrids unless there is promise of good terminal performance. Might set up a small piece of 1/2" plywood in front of a large raw piece of meat to simulate breaking through rib bones or shoulder blades before hitting vitals. Then maybe shoot some meat by itself. The coyotes will be happy campers when I get done testing

But again, not gonna go through the extra trouble if I don't like what I see with the water jugs.

 

[/VH]

I've been watching this thread as well, hoping for some positive reports, more specifically for the 6.5mm 140gn. I have an Atlas hunting rifle in 6.5 x 47L that shoots the 140 Hybrids very accurately. I carry it with me all the time but haven't gotten a chance to dust a coyote with it yet which I think would give a little better indication of on game performance than the squirrels and jackrabbits that I've had a chance to try it on so far. I will try and attach some photos of my results so far.

The Belding's ground squirrels were shot in Pacifman's back yard, the end of May with what appears to me to be mixed results. Some seemed to pencil through and some seemed to expand a little even as small as these little rats are. Although, I did not have a spotter with me so I can't swear that maybe the ones that appear to have expanded didn't maybe contact the ground prior to hitting the gopher.

The photo of the jackrabbit was fairly typical of the 8 that I shot that evening at ranges from 30 to about 150 yds. This particular one in the pic was sitting, facing slightly to my left and I tried to put the bullet right between the shoulders slightly to the rabbit's left of center. One that I shot straight through behind the shoulder, broadside at about 40 yds, didn't show this much expansion but wasn't just a pencil hole either................. looks like I may have to use more than one post for the pics.

 

[/VH]

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[/VH]

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[/VH]

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[Ledd Slinger]

Definitely looks like there's some expansion happening when you hit shoulders.

I know from experience that even the 6.5mm 140gr Berger hunting VLDs don't expand much at all on prairie dogs or ground squirrels (we call them gophers) if you hit them broadside in the mid section. Now if you get one laying on the ground facing directly towards or away from you and put the bullet from head to butt or vise versa, look out! Its gonna be raining red from the sky!

I have been doing as much reading as possible on hunting results using the 105gr Hybrid, but reviews are minimal. There's a video on YouTube where a guy shoots an antelope doe at 780 some odd yards with the Hybrid from a 243AI. It hits and kills her, but she ran a long ways before dying. Being that it was open prairie, that wasn't a very big deal. Now a mule deer or whitetail in rugged mountainous country with a lot of cover, that may not be a fun animal to track if it ran a long ways. However, the antelope did appear to have a nice exit wound upon close inspection so that is promising, especially when the shot impacted at over 780 yards.

 

[Frankr]

Ledd Slinger I would pick up some 105 Hunting VLD for the 6XC they work very well. My 6XC filled a few whitetail doe tags last season. Last thing you want is for a young hunter to hit a animal properly and have it run off due to poor bullet performance.The 105 Hunting VLD's or the 115 VLD's out of the 6XC of are like the hammer of thor.You will find yourselves fighting over who get's to use the 6XC. Or sell one of your bigger rifles and build another one.lol
It is a shame that both shots were so close when we had the rifle capable of easily hitting at 700 yards. Both shots were 175 yards and both fell in their track and never moved..As that seems to be the norm on a good shot placement.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Yeah I have a custom 6.5 Remington Magnum that I use the 140gr Hunting VLD's in. They are my absolute favorite hunting bullets of all time and that's being said after having taken animals in past years with Partitions, Ballistic Tips, Accubonds, Scirocco II's, A-Max's, Core Lokt's, GameKings, etc...To date, I have taken about 16 large game animals with the Berger 140gr VLD and 2 animals with the 250gr Elite Hunter.

The large 33 cal wildcat rifle I have uses the 250gr Elite Hunters at 2930 fps from a 26" barrel, and though it hammers game like nothing I've ever seen before, the rifle weighs about 13 lbs and the recoil is still really stout being it has no muzzle brake. My 6.5 Rem Mag launches the 140 VLD's at 3209 fps from a 26" barrel and recoil is less than a 308 Win. It is an absolute pleasure to shoot and hammers game extremely hard as well.

One re-occurring statement I am finding on the internet about the 6mm Hybrids for hunting is that they work, but the expansion is NOT consistent shot to shot. Which is understandable in a bullet designed for target shooting. Even though they may work as well as a hunting bullet the first couple or three times, there's no guarantee it will do that every time so it's still a gamble every time you launch one at an animal. The more I read reviews on the 6mm Hybrid for hunting, the more I think I'm just gonna use them in my target rifle and buy some 105gr Hunting VLD's for the 6XC.

 

[Capt. Oblivious]

The 175gr Berger OTM's out of my 30.06 and 300WM works fantastic on game down here in S Africa. Head or shoulder/behind the shoulder is very satisfactory and generally bang flops.Shot a big Warthog with one standing q away from me around 300yards, bullet entered behind the 3rd rib destroyed the lungs and made a nice exit hole below the chin.

now if only i can find some more stock around here :-[

 

[Drop Port]

I've shot a couple dozen does on permit with the 140 hybrid with decent results. Unfortunately permits are used early grow season while hot out so I don't have much time to inspect, but from what I've seen exits are often the size of a quarter or bigger. One shot at approx. 650 lodged under the off side shoulder so I popped it out. The bullet nose slumped and didn't come off, don't know if this is the norm. I will be using it again next week with a walk in cooler and will try and recover some bullets and take pictures.

Unfortunately on permit I don't often have time to analyze for hunting, I just need superior accuracy with adequate performance which I have seen so far.

 

[/VH]

Thanks for that info, Drop Port. I look forward to seeing your results from next week. I don't want to hi-jack Ledd Slinger's thread so I'll start another one but I have the same question about another bullet; has anyone tried the Lapua 136gn Scenar L for hunting?

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Thanks for that info, Drop Port. I look forward to seeing your results from next week. I don't want to hi-jack Ledd Slinger's thread so I'll start another one but I have the same question about another bullet; has anyone tried the Lapua 136gn Scenar L for hunting?

No worries about hijacking. I have actually used the 6.5mm 108gr scenar. I used it in my sons 6.5x55 last year and he took a whitetail doe with it. He killed it with one shot at about 80 yards. However, the bullet performed pretty poorly IMO. Though it killed the animal, it had hit a rib on the way to a well placed lung shot and split into two large pieces. one piece veered downward and slightly to the left luckily clipping the heart (which was the kill shot but not where he was aiming) the other piece went high right missing everything. The experience we had is the same thing I had read about the scenar on the internet time and time again, but I decided to try it anyhow. And sure enough, the reviews id read about the scenar splitting in two were perfectly accurate. We will not be using the scenar for anything other than target shooting in the future.

That experience alone is what prompted me to start this thread because I read all the bad things about the scenar and didnt listen. I have been reading some bad things about the hybrid as well, but this time I know better. Consistency and reliability with effective expansion is the name of the game with hunting bullets and most of today's target bullets won't give you that. CAN some of them perform well? I think so. CAN some if them do it with repeatable terminal performance every time? I think not. Though I would rather have a bullet NOT expand like the hybrid does at times than have a bullet split in two and go in random directions like the scenar.

 

[/VH]

Thanks for that info Ledd. The only thing I have tried the Scenar L on was a feral cat at about 30 yds. and it looked like it did ok that one time but as you stated, it really doesn't tell me much.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

From what I've read, the Scenars work fine on soft tissue and light bones. Which is reflected quite well in your photo. Its when they hit a decent size bone that they fail. Being that a rib bone is about as weak as it gets on a large game animal, that means you are risking bullet failure just about anywhere you place your shot on a deer or similar size game. My son got lucky, but he very easily could have lost that deer had the one half of the bullet not caught the edge of the heart.

 

[Sniper338]

I have two buddies i know that tried scenars for hunting once... absolute no go... they will never do it again! Never recovered the animals, decent shots too... they just leave no wound channel and blood clots and boom no blood trail.

 

[rpierce]

I shot 11 does last year with the 6.5 140 hybrids. Distance was only out to 310 yds. Farthest one went was 15 yds. 80% flopped over dead with shoulder shots. Exit hole was about the size of a silver dollar. For a bullet that shoots in the .1s and .2's at 100 off a bipod Id say it did pretty good.

 

[/VH]

I've shot a couple dozen does on permit with the 140 hybrid with decent results. Unfortunately permits are used early grow season while hot out so I don't have much time to inspect, but from what I've seen exits are often the size of a quarter or bigger. One shot at approx. 650 lodged under the off side shoulder so I popped it out. The bullet nose slumped and didn't come off, don't know if this is the norm. I will be using it again next week with a walk in cooler and will try and recover some bullets and take pictures.

Unfortunately on permit I don't often have time to analyze for hunting, I just need superior accuracy with adequate performance which I have seen so far.

Just wondering if Drop Port has gotten a chance to check out the Hybrid's any more.

 

[rcol317]

All this discussion on the Hybrid and VLD I need to share a BAD experience a couple weeks ago with a 105 VLD. I shoot a 6.5 X55 Sweed and a 6.5X284. have shot many deer with the 140 VLD's and never had a bad experience but the shot placement was always good. Had a young man on my place a few weeks ago and he used my 6 XC with 105 VLD Hunting round. I watched him shoot a 3 year old Axis buck @ 110 yards and I thought he missed. We couldn't believe it. Saw the buck next day and realized he was hit. but looked like he'd be OK, minor damage. Saw him again 2 1/2 months later he was not doing good. Grabbed a rifle the next day and found him dead, died that night. The bullet hit the upper part of the shoulder and looked like a 22 rifle had made the shot didn't even break the shoulder blade. I was really surprised the 105 VLD @ 3100 FPS did so little damage. Just exploded and made a small hole the size of a pencil. Really going to reconsider using the 6 XC again on deer without a Partition bullet.