Anyone make FMJBT's into HPBT's?

[dellet]

So one sentence you say he didn't hope to make them more accurate, then the next it is to improve the accuracy. Pretty good theory you got going.

I’ll type this a bit slower, so you can understand it better.

First sentence
Not trying to make the FMJ more accurate than, or even as accurate as a Factory produced HPBT.

Second sentence
He hopes to improve the accuracy of the existing FMJ bullet.

 

[Thor357]

I’ll type this a bit slower, so you can understand it better.

First sentence
Not trying to make the FMJ more accurate than, or even as accurate as a Factory produced HPBT.

Second sentence
He hopes to improve the accuracy of the existing FMJ bullet.

Nope, didn't work. You still come across as an...?

 

[Thor357]

Your threads and defense mechanism posts for your them don’t indicate that you have taken any consideration by those much wiser and more knowledgeable on the topics. It’s very clear that you are not well acquainted with many of the veteran forum members and the wisdom given forth, by them. If you were, the combatant attitude would not be present.

Nobody is insulting you, or butthurt by your theories, but the general attitude of the majority of posts conveys an unfounded arrogance at this point. As far as opinions and impressions, the law is guilty until proven otherwise. At this point continue with the experiment... or don’t... your choice, of course. Evidence is be preferred if you do carry on.

Wide awake you are!

 

[old_heli_logger]

Sheesh, thin skin much? Lighten up Francis. Let the man try his experiment

 

[mills braswell]

I’ll type this a bit slower, so you can understand it better.

First sentence
Not trying to make the FMJ more accurate than, or even as accurate as a Factory produced HPBT.

Second sentence
He hopes to improve the accuracy of the existing FMJ bullet.

It's crystal clear now. He's not trying to improve the accuracy of the existing bullet he has, which is a fmj bullet, he just wants to make the fmj into a hollow point to make it expand better, whether it helps accuracy or not, for performance on game. So a paper target won't really tell the tale. He will need some ballistics gel for that. Sorry I'm so slow, and I misinterpreted this :

"I might have completely missed it, but I don’t think @Thor357 ever said he hopes to make the FMJ’s more accurate, or even as accurate as a factory HPBT.

I read it as, he hopes to improve the accuracy of what he has, and that was stated quite clearly in post #11."

This is what you wrote^^^. Improving the accuracy of what he has, happens to be the fmj's correct? Sounds to me like you contradicted yourself. You left out the word "than". That is important when it comes to understanding grammar. I digress.

 

[Tommie]

 

[Thor357]

It's crystal clear now. He's not trying to improve the accuracy of the existing bullet he has, which is a fmj bullet, he just wants to make the fmj into a hollow point to make it expand better, whether it helps accuracy or not, for performance on game. So a paper target won't really tell the tale. He will need some ballistics gel for that. Sorry I'm so slow, and I misinterpreted this :

"I might have completely missed it, but I don’t think @Thor357 ever said he hopes to make the FMJ’s more accurate, or even as accurate as a factory HPBT.

I read it as, he hopes to improve the accuracy of what he has, and that was stated quite clearly in post #11."

This is what you wrote^^^. Improving the accuracy of what he has, happens to be the fmj's correct? Sounds to me like you contradicted yourself. You left out the word "than". That is important when it comes to understanding grammar. I digress.

Nope, you got it wrong. I am trying to see if drilling a small hole in the tip of a FMJBT will improve accuracy or not. If you don't know why I'm doing this then I suggest you start at the beginning of this post and read everything I said.

 

[Thor357]

View attachment 1352211

Yep! that's what this has turned into!

 

[Thor357]

Sheesh! This has turned into the telephone game we played in grade school back in the day!
A teacher tells the first kid a short story and by the time the story makes it to the last kid the story has become something completely different!!
And there were only 2 kids!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Ray123]

Sounds like a good way to get a jacket stuck in the barrel...if ya make the hollow point large enough, there is little holding the jacket in place...just blow out the lead or steel core and leave the jacket in the barrel. FMJ are not designed to be match grade. Some will brands will definitely shoot better than others. I can sometimes get 5 better quality bullets into less than an inch in AR 10, 308, but not often enough. I just shot 4 308s in one day a bolt and 3 AR 10s...Cheap Speer 130 varmint HP and 168 Speer match shot well in all with LC and Turkey primed cases in all guns...5 shot Auto loader groups were usually an inch or less with two 5 shot grouos that were .3" and a .4" with the cheap 130s
FMJ s never come close in all the years I've shot them. I've had 10 shots 168 Speer into .970" 308 AR 10, with LC brass but gave that upper away, got a new Proof barrel, but it doesn't like 168s as well but groups them slightly larger. Used to buy the Speer 130 Varmint bullet in bulk for 15 cents by the thousands, and the 168 match 20 cents for longer ranges, but yrs ago I took the 130 gr 308 to a thousand yds just to see...it does okay it hit the milk jug several times. Except for the 50BMG I have few FMJ bullets, on hand and there is a reason.

 

[Thor357]

Sounds like a good way to get a jacket stuck in the barrel...if ya make the hollow point large enough, there is little holding the jacket in place...just blow out the lead or steel core and leave the jacket in the barrel. FMJ are not designed to be match grade. Some will brands will definitely shoot better than others. I can sometimes get 5 better quality bullets into less than an inch in AR 10, 308, but not often enough. I just shot 4 308s in one day a bolt and 3 AR 10s...Cheap Speer 130 varmint HP and 168 Speer match shot well in all with LC and Turkey primed cases in all guns...5 shot Auto loader groups were usually an inch or less with two 5 shot grouos that were .3" and a .4" with the cheap 130s
FMJ s never come close in all the years I've shot them. I've had 10 shots 168 Speer into .970" 308 AR 10, with LC brass but gave that upper away, got a new Proof barrel, but it doesn't like 168s as well but groups them slightly larger. Used to buy the Speer 130 Varmint bullet in bulk for 15 cents by the thousands, and the 168 match 20 cents for longer ranges, but yrs ago I took the 130 gr 308 to a thousand yds just to see...it does okay it hit the milk jug several times. Except for the 50BMG I have few FMJ bullets, on hand and there is a reason.

Sooo...you've never tried the experiment I propose?

 

[Webster]

I've read and heard that HPBT's or variations of such are more accurate than FMJBT's. I have a truck load of .308 FMJBT's and a mini-lathe. See where I'm going with this! Any thoughts?

There is a lot more to making a good bullet than FM or BT. Don't know if your a hunter, casual BR or serious BR. For light bullets in my 6BR 14 twist I found the Sierra 60 GR Varminter better than anything I tried. I have shot custom bullets. Maybe I shoot better than I did 10 years ago. A lot of guys say Berger bullets are very good. It can get very expensive trying a lot of different bullets. Sometimes you just need to say it's good enough for what I use the rifle for.

 

[Thor357]

There is a lot more to making a good bullet than FM or BT. Don't know if your a hunter, casual BR or serious BR. For light bullets in my 6BR 14 twist I found the Sierra 60 GR Varminter better than anything I tried. I have shot custom bullets. Maybe I shoot better than I did 10 years ago. A lot of guys say Berger bullets are very good. It can get very expensive trying a lot of different bullets. Sometimes you just need to say it's good enough for what I use the rifle for.

Thanks for the info.
This experiment is not about finding the best bullet(s) for my rifles, I've pretty much found the best combo of components for these rifles. It's about finding out if what I read awhile ago about whether or not the open tip of a bullet contributes to a bullets accuracy. I am aware of the different processes that various bullets go through. Again, it's not about that. My goal, stated over and over throughout this thread, is to see if a small hole in the tip of a FMJBT will or will not show an improvement in accuracy. I have my doubts but no one on this thread or in anything I've read indicates that anyone has tried this experiment. Perhaps it's a fools errand but I've been called worse.
Thanks for your input though!

And by the way, I'm strictly a recreational long distance target shooter, 100-1000yards. Not a hunter, competitor or a serious BR shooter. I just like shooting guns and I shoot them as often as I can, that's all!

 

[Webster]

Thanks for the info.
This experiment is not about finding the best bullet(s) for my rifles, I've pretty much found the best combo of components for these rifles. It's about finding out if what I read awhile ago about whether or not the open tip of a bullet contributes to a bullets accuracy. I am aware of the different processes that various bullets go through. Again, it's not about that. My goal, stated over and over throughout this thread, is to see if a small hole in the tip of a FMJBT will or will not show an improvement in accuracy. I have my doubts but no one on this thread or in anything I've read indicates that anyone has tried this experiment. Perhaps it's a fools errand but I've been called worse.
Thanks for your input though!

And by the way, I'm strictly a recreational long distance target shooter, 100-1000yards. Not a hunter, competitor or a serious BR shooter. I just like shooting guns and I shoot them as often as I can, that's all!

Go on YouTube and do a search for Erik Cortina. He is a world class 1000 yard champion. He has many interesting videos on rifles, components, reloading, testing, annealing and range info. I don't shoot long range but I find all his video's interesting.

Most of us don't have a good enough rifle or shooting skills to see how small changes affect accuracy.

 

[Thor357]

Go on YouTube and do a search for Erik Cortina. He is a world class 1000 yard champion. He has many interesting videos on rifles, components, reloading, testing, annealing and range info. I don't shoot long range but I find all his video's interesting.

Yep, I'm a subscriber to his channel. I've learned lots from his channel
Also Ultimate Reloader, Winning in the wind, Johnnies Reloading Bench and a bunch of others.

 

[YEW PLUCKER]

Well, I made 10 rounds of 150gr. Hornady FMJBT's into BTHP's for my .308 BA.
I weighed them before and after and they lost about .2grs. I only drilled in about 0.0475 give or take a thou. Loaded them with Acc. 2460 to 40grs. That's a load that has worked very well for this rifle for many years using these bullets as intended, FMJBT's.
When the opportunity and weather are favorable I'll try them out and provide a report.

I suspect they will shoot like they did before. You have a mass produced jacket with a chunk of (relatively) soft lead core smashed into it. Those are good against sand bagged positions, light skinned vehicles, etc. but they are not made for max accuracy.

H.W. McBride wrote in "A Rifleman Went To war", that he would search through various lots of ammo to find a batch that was particularly accurate in his rifle. Then he would go to the ammo dump and find every case he could with that specific lot number.

So, with FMJ, it is luck of the draw.

When I first started loading, back thirty years or so ago (yes, I'm a youngster), I compared some M118 Special Ball (173 grain FMJ), to my own loads using Sierra 168 HPBTs. It was not even a close comparison. The M118 Special Ball shot about 1.75-2.25 inches, where I could make bug holes with my .308 loads. BTW, I was shooting an early 1990s era M700 PSS.

 

[Old Navy]

I would if I didn't mind walking in mud and shooting in the rain!

Send that rain to Northern Utah.

 

[Old Navy]

View attachment 1352211

Yep! Exactly what I thought back on page two or so.

 

[Thor357]

I suspect they will shoot like they did before. You have a mass produced jacket with a chunk of (relatively) soft lead core smashed into it. Those are good against sand bagged positions, light skinned vehicles, etc. but they are not made for max accuracy.

H.W. McBride wrote in "A Rifleman Went To war", that he would search through various lots of ammo to find a batch that was particularly accurate in his rifle. Then he would go to the ammo dump and find every case he could with that specific lot number.

So, with FMJ, it is luck of the draw.

When I first started loading, back thirty years or so ago (yes, I'm a youngster), I compared some M118 Special Ball (173 grain FMJ), to my own loads using Sierra 168 HPBTs. It was not even a close comparison. The M118 Special Ball shot about 1.75-2.25 inches, where I could make bug holes with my .308 loads. BTW, I was shooting an early 1990s era M700 PSS.

Nice story.
Though it really has nothing to do with my experiment.
I'm looking to see if modifying a FMJBT into a HPBT will improve accuracy. I do agree that it most likely will result in no improvement or more likely make it worse but there's always a slight chance that it might make an improvement as was described in something I read awhile back. If it doesn't work then no harm no foul.

 

[Old Navy]

Back in the late sixties when I started reloading you could buy 30-06 ball ammo for a dollar a box. I remember several guys doing what the op is trying. Don't remember how that turned out but several of us poor folks back then pulled a lot of the bullets and replaced them with soft points. And we killed a lot of deer with them.