Anyone loaded for a 256 Newton?

[riflewoman]

I don’t know if you found a working load, but I found this: http://tincanbandit.blogspot.com/2017/12/the-story-of-263-sabre.html

There is some load data in there for a 263 Sabre which was a version created by Jerry Shannon of Puyallup WA in the 1950s. I think it had similar capacity even though it was shorter because it had a sharper shoulder and blown out some. Jerry was a fan of Winchester brass, as were most of the 270 shooters, because it seemed to take hotter loads better than others. As always cut these 10% and work up.

 

[IdahoSharpshooter]

Tommie,

you are likely thinking about a Ross, the Canadian design.

The early rifles are excellent. I owned a 2-digit one in 30 Newton for a couple years. I made the mistake of showing it to a gentleman at a gun show. The guy pestered me until his offer overcame my desire to own it. I have had a couple of those. Doesn't work, I always spend the $$$ and then do not have either the rifle or the $$$.

 

[Zero333]

Maybe this will help you or help someone else loading the 256 Newton,... or maybe it will not help.
But I'm gonna post Quickload data for 140 grain bullets (140 A-max being the bullet used for the QL data).
Only copied down to the powders that get more than 2,650 fps. At a MAX of 48,000 PSI and/or case fill up to 106% (lightly compressed). Nevertheless, note the COAL.
=====================================================

Cartridge : .256 Newton
Bullet : .264, 140, Hornady A-MAX 26332
Useable Case Capaci: 58.706 grain H2O = 3.812 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.400 inch = 86.36 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 48000 psi, or 330 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 106 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !


Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Vihtavuori N570 102.9 58.7 3.80 2834 92.3 48000 13918 1.319 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Retumbo 106.0 57.7 3.74 2825 99.5 47905 12984 1.314 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2225 106.0 57.7 3.74 2825 99.5 47905 12984 1.314 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-33 103.5 61.6 3.99 2823 92.8 48000 13810 1.320 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 80 106.0 62.2 4.03 2816 93.3 47540 13806 1.322 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-25 99.0 53.3 3.45 2801 100.0 48000 12224 1.319 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 2 101.6 55.0 3.56 2797 97.4 48000 12863 1.333 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP30 101.6 55.0 3.56 2797 97.4 48000 12863 1.333 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2218 106.0 61.1 3.96 2796 91.0 47448 13983 1.314 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 517 96.9 55.9 3.63 2792 97.3 48000 12686 1.316 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 12 96.7 55.9 3.62 2792 97.4 48000 12668 1.317 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 91.5 51.7 3.35 2792 99.0 48000 12531 1.332 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560 93.0 51.4 3.33 2780 96.2 48000 12640 1.325 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 97.3 51.2 3.32 2772 96.7 48000 12315 1.314 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC 92.0 51.2 3.32 2772 96.7 48000 12315 1.314 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 70 85.2 49.1 3.18 2771 100.0 48000 11716 1.319 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO 93.6 53.9 3.49 2771 94.7 48000 12713 1.334 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 60 82.2 46.7 3.03 2769 100.0 48000 11111 1.320 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP5/NP ~approximation 93.1 51.0 3.30 2761 98.0 48000 12235 1.333 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22 93.1 51.0 3.30 2761 98.0 48000 12235 1.333 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA15 93.1 51.0 3.30 2761 98.0 48000 12235 1.333 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester WXR 95.6 51.2 3.32 2760 97.8 48000 12239 1.333 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP15 95.6 51.2 3.32 2760 97.8 48000 12239 1.333 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AP 2214 97.2 54.6 3.54 2759 96.9 48000 12165 1.310 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum 94.2 55.5 3.60 2759 98.7 48000 11955 1.323 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2213 92.9 50.8 3.29 2759 96.6 48000 12162 1.312 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H1000 102.2 54.7 3.55 2757 96.9 48000 12132 1.310 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2217 102.2 54.7 3.55 2757 96.9 48000 12132 1.310 ! Near Maximum !
Elcho 17 81.2 46.1 2.99 2743 100.0 48000 11016 1.331 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17 81.2 46.1 2.99 2743 100.0 48000 11016 1.331 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 217 106.0 56.5 3.66 2736 97.9 42578 13051 1.404
Rottweil R905 94.4 50.7 3.28 2729 96.2 48000 11875 1.333 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP5 NT ~approximation 96.2 53.1 3.44 2724 94.3 48000 11897 1.316 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2209 89.5 48.2 3.12 2724 97.8 48000 11540 1.318 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19 89.8 48.6 3.15 2719 97.8 48000 11572 1.329 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 511 82.8 47.7 3.09 2718 99.5 48000 11310 1.336 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter 85.6 47.8 3.10 2716 99.5 48000 11294 1.337 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S365 87.0 46.8 3.03 2715 100.0 48000 10556 1.349 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP14 ~approximation 90.5 49.0 3.17 2713 97.8 48000 11498 1.330 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 62 83.1 47.1 3.05 2712 100.0 48000 10996 1.354 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 80.6 46.2 2.99 2711 99.0 48000 11283 1.339 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 80.6 46.2 2.99 2711 99.0 48000 11283 1.339 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori 24N41 104.7 60.4 3.91 2711 85.2 48000 12211 1.318 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H870 106.0 59.2 3.84 2710 92.5 42694 13133 1.397
Hodgdon H4831 SC 91.5 50.0 3.24 2699 95.9 48000 11415 1.325 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 95.1 50.0 3.24 2699 95.9 48000 11415 1.325 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204 85.2 47.6 3.09 2699 97.6 48000 11276 1.329 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP4 ~approximation 88.0 47.6 3.09 2699 97.6 48000 11276 1.329 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA4 88.0 47.6 3.09 2699 97.6 48000 11276 1.329 ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP 84.9 45.5 2.95 2698 100.0 48000 10836 1.345 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP19 ~approximation 85.0 45.5 2.95 2698 100.0 48000 10833 1.345 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 82.4 45.6 2.95 2696 99.9 48000 10932 1.349 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350 84.5 45.8 2.96 2695 100.0 48000 10871 1.368 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S385 90.1 49.3 3.19 2688 98.6 48000 11152 1.354 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester Supreme 780 89.4 51.0 3.30 2684 97.8 48000 11110 1.335 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831 89.2 46.2 3.00 2683 100.0 48000 10635 1.355 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S071 98.8 50.6 3.28 2683 99.5 48000 10986 1.372 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 3100 93.4 50.6 3.28 2683 99.5 48000 10986 1.372 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N170 104.8 56.1 3.64 2682 90.7 48000 11702 1.349 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N165 95.3 51.0 3.30 2680 98.3 48000 10942 1.340 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP4 NT ~approximation 85.8 47.1 3.05 2679 98.9 48000 10925 1.345 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R904 88.7 47.3 3.07 2671 96.7 48000 10964 1.331 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-50 106.0 62.0 4.02 2670 88.9 40348 13390 1.453
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 87.4 45.7 2.96 2668 100.0 48000 10037 1.343 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S070 84.7 45.3 2.94 2662 99.1 48000 10700 1.354 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D100 102.4 59.6 3.86 2659 86.5 48000 11382 1.334 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N160 94.9 49.2 3.19 2658 96.6 48000 10801 1.334 ! Near Maximum !
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

First column = Powder Name
Second column = Case fill %
Third column = Charge weight Grains
Fourth column = Charge weight Grams
Fifth column = Velocity FPS
Sixth column = powder burned %
Seventh column = Chamber pressure PSI
Eighth = muzzle pressure psi
Ninth = barrel time milliseconds (irrelevant unless you have quickload and know how to work with it)

Cheers !

 

[Bbear]

Thanks, Zero. I'd seen a similar QL list like this before. Since I have 2 1 lb canisters of 7828ssc, that's what I ran with. The other list showed a max load of 54 grains and I'm not going there.
Started with 50 gr so I have a little room to play with. Pushing a 129 gr ABLR. If I can get a scope to not futz up (technical term, ya know?). I'll report back.
I was also thinking of giving RL 23 a try as well.

 

[Zero333]

Thanks, Zero. I'd seen a similar QL list like this before. Since I have 2 1 lb canisters of 7828ssc, that's what I ran with. The other list showed a max load of 54 grains and I'm not going there.
Started with 50 gr so I have a little room to play with. Pushing a 129 gr ABLR. If I can get a scope to not futz up (technical term, ya know?). I'll report back.
I was also thinking of giving RL 23 a try as well.

You're welcome.

The data I posted is around 48,000 psi, which guarantees not to beat up the older guns.
If anyone has a modern action and barrel chambered for the 256 Newton they can go up a few grains in charge weight and get 150 fps extra.

 

[Zero333]

129 ABLR & IMR-7828 / 7828ssc.
===============================

Cartridge : .256 Newton
Bullet : .264, 129, Nosler AccuBond LR 58943 G7
Useable Case Capaci: 58.323 grain H2O = 3.787 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : IMR 7828 SSC

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 76 42.00 2277 1486 26092 9156 82.9 1.655
-18.0 78 43.05 2337 1565 27786 9514 84.5 1.614
-16.0 80 44.10 2397 1646 29593 9866 86.0 1.573
-14.0 82 45.15 2458 1731 31521 10212 87.5 1.533
-12.0 84 46.20 2520 1819 33579 10550 89.0 1.494
-10.0 86 47.25 2581 1909 35779 10878 90.3 1.456
-08.0 87 48.30 2644 2002 38129 11195 91.6 1.416
-06.0 89 49.35 2706 2098 40642 11500 92.8 1.372
-04.0 91 50.40 2769 2196 43333 11790 94.0 1.331
-02.0 93 51.45 2832 2297 46215 12065 95.0 1.291 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 95 52.50 2895 2400 49306 12323 96.0 1.252 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 97 53.55 2958 2506 52618 12563 96.8 1.215 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 99 54.60 3021 2614 56188 12782 97.6 1.178 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 101 55.65 3084 2724 60020 12980 98.2 1.143 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
==========================================

QL predicts 95% case fill = 52.5 gr IMR-7828ssc = 2,895 fps = 2,400 ft-lbs = 49,306 psi

55.65 gr imr7828 = 3,084 fps = 2,724 ft-lbs = 60,020 psi.

 

[Bbear]

Thanks again to everyone. I'm still playing with it. Making brass is somewhat of a pain having to trim the .270 brass down quite a bit to get it to the proper length. With temps near and over 100 degrees, I'm not venturing into the reloading room (aka the garage) much. I have noticed that the fired rounds are sizing quite well. I did take out the magnetospeed and run some rounds over it. Speeds with the 129 ABLR were in the 2750 range with 50 gr of 7828ssc. Will start on load development after I get some more brass made up.

 

[Zero333]

Thanks again to everyone. I'm still playing with it. Making brass is somewhat of a pain having to trim the .270 brass down quite a bit to get it to the proper length. With temps near and over 100 degrees, I'm not venturing into the reloading room (aka the garage) much. I have noticed that the fired rounds are sizing quite well. I did take out the magnetospeed and run some rounds over it. Speeds with the 129 ABLR were in the 2750 range with 50 gr of 7828ssc. Will start on load development after I get some more brass made up.

Excellent !
Thanks for reporting back.

I'm happy to see your 50 gr load chronographed within Quickloads estimates.

I just took a look back at the pictures of the rifle and I gotta say I like it. Not to mention it's gotta be like 100 years old ??? and those set triggers are pretty kool too.

I like the idea of hunting with a old rifle. The 256 Newton is no slouch either.

 

[Bbear]

Zero, I picked up some 123 gr Lapua's to try as well. I chose the 7828ssc as I have 2 lbs of it and don't use it for anything else. I also will try some RL23 I have and don't use. I can still try some IMR4350 to boot. So, load development is going to be fun!

 

[Bbear]

Ok, this morning I got up early and loaded some IMR7828 pushing the 123 Scenars. Ran loads from 52 gr up to 54.4 in .3 grain increases. I've never seen a cartridge that just suddenly decided 'THIS IS THE LOAD' like this one did. At 53.5 I shot this 3-shot group:

I had to look at the backer to see that 2 went through the upper hole!

Now all I need to do is load up 10 rounds and run them across the Magnetospeed the work up the dope then test it out to 500.

The rounds I shot just before the 'magic' load and immediately after it both were nearly 2" groups. I've never seen that before. Most loads seem to start working towards the 'best' load then work away from it. Not this old lady.

 

[Bbear]

Yes, I know, it's been FOREVER since I updated this thread.
I took 10 rounds of the supposed 'perfect' load out and it shot into a 4" group at 100 yards. So, I broke out the bore scope and checked. Ever seen a city street so filled with potholes and cracks that you couldn't find the pavement between them? Yea, this old girl has been rode way too hard and put up wet too many times. The barrel is pitted so bad you have a difficult time finding any groove in the barrel. (yes, I know Newton used his own version of the Metford rifling system). So, this one will go on the back burner until I can put a new barrel on it. Sad that a 106 year old rifle was this poorly cared for over it's life. Still, I may drag it out from time to time and take it to the range just to shoot it.

 

[Zero333]

That's not good to hear. I'm sorry for the rifle. I really like it's looks and would be proud to be able to take something like that hunting.

 

[Bbear]

Here are just a few of the bore scope pics:
Near the chamber is the first one:

About halfway down the barrel:

And finally, about an inch back from the muzzle. Surprisingly, the muzzle is in good shape:

Thinking of trying some of the Tubbs lapping bullets and see if it does anything to improve on it.

 

[Riesel]

Tommie,

you are likely thinking about a Ross, the Canadian design.

The early rifles are excellent. I owned a 2-digit one in 30 Newton for a couple years. I made the mistake of showing it to a gentleman at a gun show. The guy pestered me until his offer overcame my desire to own it. I have had a couple of those. Doesn't work, I always spend the $$$ and then do not have either the rifle or the $$$.

I feel your Pain

 

[Zero333]

If it was my rifle, I would rebarrel it for the same cartridge so it can live on and do what it was meant to do.

I think the barrel steel used in that batch of rifles was not the best to begin with.

 

[Rednexx]

My 2 cents worth here, years ago I owned an original Newton in 256 Newton, long gone, but that's another story. Mine never liked 129 gr bullets or similar weight, my fire form load was '06 cases necked to 6.5 and so I could close the bolt the slowest powder I could find at the time I believe 5010 from Hogdon up to the shoulder of the case and seat a 160 gr bullet, the Newton actions had 9 locking lugs not much of a chance of it failing. Also I believe Charles Newton used a polygon rifling type, plus these original rifles are 100 years old and older, metallurgy has changed a bit since then. I just made a trade for a 256 Newton, not an original, but on a 98 Mauser action, hopefully the twist in this barrel will like 129/130 or similar weight bullets. But I also plan to shoot those in my 260 AAR so if they don't work no problem.

 

[Kurz]