Any DIY annealer machines better than this one?

[zanemoseley]

I'm looking at making the "Skip Black Betty" design from this Aussie. I work at a cabinet shop so can make the case and ramps free, just need to buy the electronics basically.

Here's the plan, you'll have to make an account to view.

http://shootingaustralia.net/forum/reloading/9587-skip-s-case-annealer-black-betty

Here's a document with more details: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bb_cm10J8urCM2PtKql8VyHtGlovTeI3RnAj7xa0eX0/edit


So is this about the best DIY option going around? Figured I'd ask before ordering the materials from China via Ebay.

 

[dabeechman]

I built one, and it turned out great. Made different drums and feed wheels for my .223-.308, and another for my .50.

 

[Mozella]

Read THIS THREAD. It's long, but it has a lot of great info including, plans, parts sources, hints, tips, and everything you need to know. Here's my version.
_DSC3404

 

[1066]

I think the fully evolved Black Betty, with the proximity detector, as used in Mozella's excellent machine, is about a good as it gets for a repeatable home build. There's plenty of documentation, build sequences and parts lists available.

Here's a couple of my machines, but they don't really lend themselves to home manufacture:

 

[zanemoseley]

Thanks for the links and info guys, I'll check them out. 1066, I saw your annealer on Youtube last night, they're quite the work of art and above my electrical abilities. I'm good at a lot of things but electronic wiring isn't one of them.

 

[nmkid]

I saw your annealer on Youtube last night, they're quite the work of art and above my electrical abilities. I'm good at a lot of things but electronic wiring isn't one of them.

That is exactly why I had to "bite the bullet" and buy one!

 

[ED3]

Read THIS THREAD. It's long, but it has a lot of great info including, plans, parts sources, hints, tips, and everything you need to know. Here's my version.
_DSC3404

Could you elaborate on the additional device/ control seen here not on the simpler version;
ie: the device under the ramp, beneath the shell in the 'waiting' position, and the 3rd digital readout.
Thanks
E D

 

[ED3]

Thanks for the links and info guys, I'll check them out. 1066, I saw your annealer on Youtube last night, they're quite the work of art and above my electrical abilities. I'm good at a lot of things but electronic wiring isn't one of them.

The wiring of the original design is pretty simple. There are three different components: a power supply, 2 controllers, and 2 motors. It's pretty close to plug-and-play, the connections are well identified,and the 3 components are readily available on eBay. Don't be intimidated by the sophisticated appearance.
I saw this design about 2 weeks ago, bought the electrical parts off eBay($50), and the 3rd of 3 shipments arrived yesterday.

 

[Mozella]

.............snip..........I'm good at a lot of things but electronic wiring isn't one of them.

You need not be an electronics wiz to make a "Skip Design" machine. Can you tell a white wire from a red one? Can you tell a + sign from a - sign? Do you have the ability to solder a couple of wires together? Can you read?

If you answer yes to three of these four questions, you're qualified. It's really quite simple and the AR-15 website thread has everything you need to know all spelled out in detail. In the worst case, you could do everything but the wiring and just ask the next person walking down your street. Chances are a complete stranger could finish the wiring for you. It ain't rocket surgery.

 

[RW]

I'm looking at making the "Skip Black Betty" design from this Aussie. I work at a cabinet shop so can make the case and ramps free, just need to buy the electronics basically.

Here's the plan, you'll have to make an account to view.

http://shootingaustralia.net/forum/reloading/9587-skip-s-case-annealer-black-betty

Here's a document with more details: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bb_cm10J8urCM2PtKql8VyHtGlovTeI3RnAj7xa0eX0/edit


So is this about the best DIY option going around? Figured I'd ask before ordering the materials from China via Ebay.

I built an annealer on the Skips design and alltough it took longer than what I had read it is pretty basic but I had to tweak a few things. I could build another one a lot faster! RW

 

[Mozella]

Could you elaborate on the additional device/ control seen here not on the simpler version;
ie: the device under the ramp, beneath the shell in the 'waiting' position, and the 3rd digital readout.
Thanks
E D

Sure. It's an inductive proximity switch, meaning it can detect the near presence of a piece of brass.

The basic "Skip" design has two drive motors, one for the annealing pan which is adjusted to a duty cycle which will produce the correct annealing time. That, of course, depends on your torch temperature and brass type. The other motor drives the feed drum. The idea is to have a piece of brass sitting on the feed ramp waiting to enter the pan, but you do not want two pieces nor do you want zero pieces. That requires that the feed drum motor be adjusted to keep in time with the annealing pan. It's easy enough to tweak the speed from time to time if they begin to get out of sync. Or some folks intentionally run it a bit too slow so that every 20 or 30 rounds it delivers the case too late and the annealing pan does one cycle empty.

Two solutions exist. One is to use one drive motor and a toothed belt to replace the other motor. The easier solution is to wire in a three dollar, normally-closed, proximity switch which will interrupt power to the feed drum motor when a piece of brass is in the "waiting" position. When the case falls into the annealing pan, the switch closes and the feed drum motor runs at full speed to quickly feed the next case. When it rolls down the feed ramp to the "waiting" position the proximity switch opens and stops the feed drum motor. Very slick.

Once you have a proximity switch, it's easy enough to include a round counter, with a reset switch, for a few bucks more. That is the blue display. I did it mostly for "bling", but in fact it's nice to know how many rounds I've just annealed.

You could add more flashing lights and buzzers or bells to supplement the normal clink and clank sounds of the machine if you wish. A reloader seeing this machine operate for the first time is usually mesmerized like a small child watching an animated department store Christmas display. I took mine to the range one day to demonstrate it. The entire firing line shut down and a group of 12 adults stood around like a bunch of kids watching my machine. When it finished, they all said, "Do it again". Do it again". I actually laughed out loud.

 

[Shaggy357]

If any of you upgrade to new and improved, and need to sell your first "project", please keep me in mind. My version is a $0.10 screw, a Harbor Freight $8 torch, and a spot on my RCBS case prep machine. 100% manual, slow, but it works.

Nice and neat looking machines. I applaud your craftsmanship.

Steve

 

[zanemoseley]

I was referring to the 1066 annealing machines as more complicated which has the drum which reverses rotation to dump off the case once finish. The Skip design is definitely easy enough for me to tackle. I'm just trying to decide if I want to go through the trouble and expense of the case feeder, part of me feel like a manual feed ramp would be just fine, 100 cases in under 10 minutes isn't really all that bad to hand feed.

 

[Mozella]

;............. snip............... part of me feel like a manual feed ramp would be just fine, 100 cases in under 10 minutes isn't really all that bad to hand feed.

Nothing wrong with that if you don't mind handling cases (unlike me). Why not buy the extra motor and controller (about 20 bucks extra) while you're at it, configure your manual machine with just the annealing pan and feed ramp, and see how you like it. If you do, you have a spare motor and control unit. If not, later on you could make a feed drum and hopper, install the spare motor and control unit, and be good to go.

Even if you don't order the spare motor, it would be wise to size and configure your unit to allow an upgrade. That wouldn't cost anything really.

 

[zanemoseley]

Can someone explain why people build out the hopper 3/4" from the main front? I can see you need a little offset so the brass is dropped in front of the back wall of the drum but 3/4" seems a bit excessive. Since I want to anneal some shorter stuff like 6.5 Grendel I will have to either cut down the cake pan/drum to accommodate or have a spacer installed when I run the short brass. A shorter pan/drum mixed with the feed ramp being offset could add up to problems, I could see the brass even possibly falling off the front of the drum during the transition, you do have a 15 degree angle helping you out though.

 

[ED3]

Sure. It's an inductive proximity switch, meaning it can detect the near presence of a piece of brass.

<<<snipped>>>>

You could add more flashing lights and buzzers or bells to supplement the normal clink and clank sounds of the machine if you wish. A reloader seeing this machine operate for the first time is usually mesmerized like a small child watching an animated department store Christmas display. I took mine to the range one day to demonstrate it. The entire firing line shut down and a group of 12 adults stood around like a bunch of kids watching my machine. When it finished, they all said, "Do it again". Do it again". I actually laughed out loud.

Thanks for the detailed explanation.
That's a good solution for keeping the 2, independent wheels in sync with each other.

I suspect a similar proximity switch, mounted near the shell being heated, could be used in conjunction with an auto-resetting timer/ display to monitor the 'time-in-flame'. Having no experience with these motors or controllers, I am a bit concerned about the controller output drifting, thus changing the speed, and heating time.
(If you can recommend a timer and proximity switch for this task, I would be most appreciative)

For me, the immediate fascination with this device was the simplicity in which it completes the complex task of uniformly heating a long sequence of brass shells.
The fact that it is done with 2 of the most basic and recognizable concepts the world understands: the wheel, and gravity, makes it more spellbinding.

Regards,
E D

 

[dskogman]

Here's the parts I used. Started with a single motor and manual feed but soon went to two with auto feed. Makes annealing so easy and consistent.

From Amazon.com


Fat Daddio's Anodized Aluminum Round Cake Pan, 5-Inch x 2-Inch
Sold by: etailz
$6.99


RioRand (TM) 12V-40V 10A PWM DC Motor Speed Controller w/ Knob--High Efficiency, High Torque, Low Heat Generating with Reverse Polarity Protection, Hi
Sold by: VANCOUVER SUN Product question? Ask Seller
$10.39



Nextrox 37mm 12V 15RPM Electric Mini Geared Box DC Motor f. DIY High Torque
Sold by: Kohree
$12.00

From Pololu.com
1 x #1203 Pololu Universal Aluminum Mounting Hub for 5mm Shaft, #4-40 Holes (2-Pack) = 7.49

 

[ED3]

For the original version (sans the shell counter) there is a pretty thorough document, including a detailed material list here:


https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bb_cm10J8urCM2PtKql8VyHtGlovTeI3RnAj7xa0eX0/edit?pref=2&pli=1#

The electric components I got off eBay:
Power Supply: http://www.ebay.com/itm/261973801832

Speed Controller (2 needed): http://www.ebay.com/itm/141856333969

Motor (2 needed): http://www.ebay.com/itm/161320380766

All shipped from China, delivery was 1 week +/ -

 

[zanemoseley]

Ok I ended up ordering all my electrical stuff from Ebay, went with 2 motors so I'll give the auto feed a try. Where did you guys get your nylon rod pieces from? Best I can find is a foot of 2 1/4" rod for about $11 but the shipping is $10.

 

[Mozella]

Ok I ended up ordering all my electrical stuff from Ebay, went with 2 motors so I'll give the auto feed a try. Where did you guys get your nylon rod pieces from? Best I can find is a foot of 2 1/4" rod for about $11 but the shipping is $10.

Yeah, I think I paid about that much for mine and I used only a few inches. It would be nice to get together with three or four other builders and split the feed drum rod material and the rather expensive Tempelaq temperature paint. You only need a little bit whenever you calibrate your machine, but the small bottle is actually a triple life time supply.

As for the timing, I think measuring it electronically is overkill. A particular duty cycle setting on mine produces very consistent speed even when the window air conditioning unit in my reloading room kicks in (same circuit). You can check itself with a stopwatch, as I did, if you need convincing. Different brass with different neck thickness will need slightly more or less time in the flame, and of course, your flame adjustment plays a part too. I set mine so the blue inner flame just touches the neck. It requires a tweak from time to time to keep it constant since the bottle cools as it empties.

Setting the timing is easy. Apply the temperature indicating paint (I use 399C, 750F) INSIDE the neck. Then shine a bright light into the neck and get close enough so you can see it change color (it appears to melt or turn clear) just as it drops out of the annealing pan. Fiddle with the timing as you test a batch of scrap brass. Make sure you let them cool to room temperature before you re-test them. Once you know the correct duty cycle, you will find it quite consistent. Nevertheless I check mine every couple of months just to be sure. Mine is always is right on the money.