Anti-cant devices

[Chuckhunter]

You might want to scan you tube for benchrest shooting videos. I know there are several there with some top-notch shooters doing their thing. I believe Alex Wheeler has some videos of some of the fellows from Montana shooting in competition, like Tom Mousel. Carefully study their technique and have someone video you shooting at the bench and look for the differences. Try and correct the differences you find and I'm certain you'll see improvement in your results. It certainly can't hurt to emulate world class shooters.

 

[DShortt]

I misread your post and concentrated on scope cant.
Now even if the scope was canted (bear with me) and the POI didn't move it is NOT responsible for any fliers. Granted your getting it in the bullseye will be painful but providing the center of the crosshairs are on your target that's it. (no you can't make a horizontal nor vertical adjustment that makes sense) but the center remains the same therefore fliers are something else. Now everyone has a flier more often than they wish for sure. It's really nice when you can call it as you realize it's YOU. If you can't call it then it's anyone of a zillion things. A canted scope is not one of them. As long as the POI has not changed that's it. # things a scope has to do. 1 reticle focused, 2 POI does not change, 3 be bright.
I have a few Savage actions. I have just one that is totally stock meaning Savage barrel action stock. It's in 6BR. Had it for years and initially no brass. So I bought one box of Lapua's. Once sighted in (3 shots) it next produced a 5 shot 100 yard group in the 3's.
That and all the other Savage's action I have shoot the very best of any rifle I've owned.
Each upsets the rifle in the bags which does not bother me one bit. Some I've tried the stiff bolt kits on. Works a bit. Not enough for me to get another kit. The 3 that have someone's barrel and stock and my reloads will shoot in the 2's. And when everything is right ( a cloudy day, no wind, and my head is right) have been in the one's.
I could buy someone's action but I see no need.
Everything above is MY experience with MY rifles and MY reloads, 6BR for one and 30BR for the others.
I have shot a whole lot of great 4 shot groups! And that flier could be 2,3,4,5th shot.
Never #1. If it is I just start again. Won't chase anything.

Well now you've got me very curious because what you are saying about cant is in direct conflict with what I've been told. So as with practically everything firearm and shooting related the only way I know to separate the wheat from the chaff is to go to the range and see for myself. I ordered a scope mounted level last night. After installing it I'll carefully shoot a few targets some dead level, some slightly canted and some obviously canted and compare. Then there will be no questions in my mind about this subject. I'm not saying you're wrong nor am I saying the other guy is right, all I'm saying is I'll test to see if it matters in what I'm trying to do. What you are saying about attempting scope adjustments makes perfect sense but all I'm doing is shooting to check group size. I purposely do not shoot my point of aim so that I do not loose it and perhaps that would reflect a greater deflection if the rifle and scope are canted?
One of these days perhaps I'll finally learn the only way to know these things is to test it for myself.
Thanks for your input, it's got me thinking about how this actually works.

 

[M-61]

I could/should have sad:
A cant on the scope does not cause a flier
Do I take care in eliminating can’t? You bet I do.
If I wanted to move the point of impact 1/8 to the right and the scope is not canted the impact point is 1/8 to the right.
Canted scope when moved 1/8 to the right will not only go somewhat to the right but also UP
Depends on the cant.
Provided the point of impact does not change (damage in scope) it will not cause a flier
Sorry for confusion

 

[powderbrake]

The anti-cant device is a great help, I am glad you are getting one. I have levels on each of my rifles to prevent cant.

Make sure your anti-cant level is reading level when your scope cross hair is level.

Another suggestion for tighter groups, and eliminating flyers is having a front stop on the front rest, and gently sliding the rifle to touch it before each shot. A rifle will not group as well if it is resting on a different spot on the forearm at each shot.

 

[DShortt]

I could/should have sad:
A cant on the scope does not cause a flier
Do I take care in eliminating can’t? You bet I do.
If I wanted to move the point of impact 1/8 to the right and the scope is not canted the impact point is 1/8 to the right.
Canted scope when moved 1/8 to the right will not only go somewhat to the right but also UP
Depends on the cant.
Provided the point of impact does not change (damage in scope) it will not cause a flier
Sorry for confusion

Right, but when trying to get overall group size from say 3/4" @100 to 1/2" then it seems at least possible to me that scope/rifle cant might show up somewhat exaggerated when the POA and POI are not set to match. Maybe it doesn't compound errors. I don't understand the physics of it enough to know so I'm just pondering the idea.

 

[JFrank]

Right, but when trying to get overall group size from say 3/4" @100 to 1/2" then it seems at least possible to me that scope/rifle cant might show up somewhat exaggerated when the POA and POI are not set to match. Maybe it doesn't compound errors. I don't understand the physics of it enough to know so I'm just pondering the idea.

I’ve had a bit of cant in a target rifle shooting to 1 k it made about a half minute difference so you shouldn’t notice any effect from cant at 100 yards, if your confident in the load then I would look into recoil management.

 

[DShortt]

I’ve had a bit of cant in a target rifle shooting to 1 k it made about a half minute difference so you shouldn’t notice any effect from cant at 100 yards, if your confident in the load then I would look into recoil management.

Ok. Sounds like I'm worried about a rather insignificant detail then. Thanks.

 

[timeout]

Right, but when trying to get overall group size from say 3/4" @100 to 1/2" then it seems at least possible to me that scope/rifle cant might show up somewhat exaggerated when the POA and POI are not set to match. Maybe it doesn't compound errors. I don't understand the physics of it enough to know so I'm just pondering the idea.

Simple explanation of the physics.

 

[Brians356]

I am a casual shooter and have been vexed with inconsistencies in my bench shooting so I'm trying to check for possible causes. Having said that I must admit that I've not paid a great deal of attention to scope cant while shooting and so I've likely developed some bad habits because of it.

It's not "scope cant" you are asking about, it's "rifle cant" or just "cant" in the context of shooting technique. The difference is critical. If the scope reticle is canted WRT the bore axis, at least it's fixed and not changing shot-to-shot, so while less than ideal, it's not deleterious to precision on the target like rifle cant (which often varies shot-to-shot) likely will be. Of course if you are using the reticle to combat rifle cant (by aligning it with a leveled target, for example) the scope cant will be transferred to the rifle, but again it is fixed, so shot-to-shot variation (which can well affect groups sizes) will not be likely.
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[DShortt]

Yes, you are correct. I missed that detail as well. Thank you for setting me straight.

 

[Brians356]

Yes, you are correct. I missed that detail as well. Thank you for setting me straight.

No harm, no foul. ;-) The confusion is compounded by the popular bubble levels attached to the scope, which could be used to attempt aligning the scope with the bore, but are more useful for monitoring cant while shooting.

WRT the latter: myself, I don't like having to pull my eye out of the scope eyepiece to focus on a level close to my face, then get back into the scope. Perhaps I'm not privy to a better way to use a bubble level, or some other type of level. I suppose by now there are expensive, sophisticated scopes with an internal level indicator of some sort, but I haven't kept tabs on developments in high-end scopes.
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