anschultz vs custom
- Thread starter double g
- Start date
doclu60
Silver $$ Contributor
If you are planning to shoot sanctioned RFBR in any of the big sanctioning bodies, most likely not.....as I think post #2 alluded to. I shoot sanctioned RFBR and very few Annies do very well. Those that do, are usually re-barreled rifles with the same custom barrels most use on the other actions you mentioned. IMO, in the discipline I shoot, you are better off just building or buying a good RFBR rifle. You can pay Annie money and then spend more to have it smithed to be competitive, or just start from scratch with a custom for most likely less financial investment. JMO
Scott
Scott
At a recent match, I saw a factory Anschutz (actually a Fortner 27A) come within 1X of tying the all time IR50/50 record score with a 750-67X, in a three target match. This is a factory action, factory barrel, with a tuner, shooting off a one piece rest. He and I were the only 2 factory rifles in the match, that had 41 competitors. He finished 1st and I finished 7th with a 750-54X. This was a indoor event, indoors is mostly about the equipment and the ammo. So, this to me says a factory rifle can compete at the highest level.
Hi-NV Shooter
Gold $$ Contributor
If you are only going to shoot in club matches it will be good enough to a certain level. put a good aftermarket barrel and have it done by a skilled smith you can run with the big boys.
But it is more than just the rifle and ammo. what you see in the mirror has a lot to do with it too!
Lee
Hi-NV Shooter
Gold $$ Contributor
Larry Koch
Silver $$ Contributor
Anschutz lets out a few shooters from their custom Shop in AZ.. With all the bells and whistles.
doclu60
Silver $$ Contributor
Above, 99% of the time this does not happen. It happened at that event for one match. Where did those two rifles finish in the whole event of several matches, which was shot at the same venue on the same weekend? The statement of "indoors is mostly about equipment and the ammo" are mostly true words. What George leaves out is bench draw and conditions, both inside and outside the building that dictate, at least in part, of how any given rifle/shooter/ammo/setup will work indoors. Also, experienced indoor shooters know things that were left out of George's post. He knows that as well as I do. Not saying it was fluke, but there is a lot more to it than what he posted above. Anyone that has shot matches indoors will tell you it's not easy and there are conditions and better bench draws that effect outcomes.
George loves his very good non-custom rifles and also his method of shooting them, off a bipod. Nothing wrong with that. He has also put tons of work into doing that. Making a statement like "So, this to me says a factory rifle can compete at the highest level." is misleading information as to the content of the OP's question from a 'reasonable' side of things. I would guess that both rifles he posted about are older rifles built in a different era.
If someone wants to shoot sanctioned RFBR (and win or finish high in the pack) wonders about choosing between a factory rifle or a custom, especially in Annie price territory, a custom will give you better odds of achieving that. Sure, as Lee said, on a club level you may have some success. At a national, area tournament, or big state match, probably not, in spite of what was posted above. It's proven every weekend at ranges all over the country. I wonder how George and his Fortner 27A friend would fair at the ARA Indoor UL Nationals coming up in March of '24? They both have plenty of time to plan the trip.
Scott
I have to agree with everything Scott's said. Bruce is very fortunate to have his F27A that shoots so well but try buying one. Even if you can find one you're going to pay way more for it than you can have a custom built by a RFBR gunsmith on a dedicated RFBR action (RBLP etc) with all the goodies. I'm a Anschutz fan (also 52 George) but you if they typically performed like the customs do you'd see a lot more of them listed in the equipment list for the big matches
dgeesaman
Gold $$ Contributor
I love Anschutz rifles and they are top performers, but if I had to choose one rifle at random for unlimited rfbr, it would be the custom every day and twice on match day.
It’s not about what’s possible it’s what is most likely to deliver an outstanding shooter. The hummer setups just happen more in the customs.
It’s not about what’s possible it’s what is most likely to deliver an outstanding shooter. The hummer setups just happen more in the customs.
dgeesaman
Gold $$ Contributor
That said, an accurate Anschutz is an accurate rifle too. The target won’t know the difference. I own a moderately ugly factory barreled 1907 and I bought it because a friend picked it up and was disappointed in its looks. It shot really well though, so I bought it from him at his cost which was very reasonable. Took it to Lapua Ohio and got a lot of good CenterX and it got even better. It still hammers, and with the matched lot ammo I have it’s probably as good as an average entry level custom. I’m sure it’s not the best Anschutz, by far.
Back to the big picture, benchrest rimfire is a lottery game of mostly barrels and ammo lots. Unless cost is a factor or the rifle has proven accuracy, I’m going to bet on barrels attached to a custom.
Back to the big picture, benchrest rimfire is a lottery game of mostly barrels and ammo lots. Unless cost is a factor or the rifle has proven accuracy, I’m going to bet on barrels attached to a custom.
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Scott,Above, 99% of the time this does not happen. It happened at that event for one match. Where did those two rifles finish in the whole event of several matches, which was shot at the same venue on the same weekend? The statement of "indoors is mostly about equipment and the ammo" are mostly true words. What George leaves out is bench draw and conditions, both inside and outside the building that dictate, at least in part, of how any given rifle/shooter/ammo/setup will work indoors. Also, experienced indoor shooters know things that were left out of George's post. He knows that as well as I do. Not saying it was fluke, but there is a lot more to it than what he posted above. Anyone that has shot matches indoors will tell you it's not easy and there are conditions and better bench draws that effect outcomes.
George loves his very good non-custom rifles and also his method of shooting them, off a bipod. Nothing wrong with that. He has also put tons of work into doing that. Making a statement like "So, this to me says a factory rifle can compete at the highest level." is misleading information as to the content of the OP's question from a 'reasonable' side of things. I would guess that both rifles he posted about are older rifles built in a different era.
If someone wants to shoot sanctioned RFBR (and win or finish high in the pack) wonders about choosing between a factory rifle or a custom, especially in Annie price territory, a custom will give you better odds of achieving that. Sure, as Lee said, on a club level you may have some success. At a national, area tournament, or big state match, probably not, in spite of what was posted above. It's proven every weekend at ranges all over the country. I wonder how George and his Fortner 27A friend would fair at the ARA Indoor UL Nationals coming up in March of '24? They both have plenty of time to plan the trip.
Scott
I agree with you 100%, conditions, bench draws..... indoors do affect they outcomes, but that is true whether you're shooting a custom or an old rifle like I have. Bruce and I did have a good bench draw that day, usually one end or the other at PH has that advantage, luckily it was the end we were on. The next two days during the Nat's, I did not fair as well.
"I wonder how George and his Fortner 27A friend would fair at the ARA Indoor UL Nationals coming up in March of '24?" I will go out on a limb and say somewhere in the lower middle. We will never know, as I have no plans of going. I'll be the first to tell anyone, I don't do very well on an ARA target, my agg is somewhere around 2100 or less, the few times I have tried it. Actually 2150, I went and looked at 2019, the last I shot ARA.
I will stand behind my statement. " a factory rifle can compete at the highest level" just like any other shooter, it boils down to ammo, practice and putting the time in. Not every factory rifle is capable of it, just like not every full-blown custom is not either. I would agree, your odds would greatly improve with a custom setup, it can compete at the highest level, but will it?
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USMCDOC
Silver $$ Contributor
Hasn’t Joe done some good with his?
doclu60
Silver $$ Contributor
Nice post George. No arguments from me. I do admire the guys that take the time to get the best out of those older, well built factory rifles. I won't be at the ARA Indoor Nat's this coming March either. I will make the journey to PH for the first time the next week after them though, for the IR 3-Gun and Sporter Indoor Nat's. Heard a lot of things about that range. I need to experience it!
Best regards........Scott
doclu60
Silver $$ Contributor
If you are referring to Joe Besche, yes, very good. His Annies are really not much factory anymore though. Joe is at the top of the ARA UL Outdoor Hall of Fame points with a large margin over 2nd place.
Scott
USMCDOC
Silver $$ Contributor
could not think of his last name thanks
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