Another stumper.

[muleman69]

Muleman, I'll try my best here. When you open your bolt and it starts to cam over is when the extractor starts to pull the fired case free from the chamber, if your not getting enough of that "pull" then extraction of the case is very difficult. I only have experience on a Savage I re barreled to 6mm br. I shimmed the baffle in front of the bolt handle to start the cam process sooner giving more primary extraction. I do not own nor have ever owned a Rem so do not know if it works the same. The best way to tell is fire a round an use a feeler gauge as a shim between action and bolt cam to see if that helps ! I hope I'm making some sence and have not just made myself sound like an idiot. Experts if I'm way out in left field please say so.
Thanks Bill

Sounds good to me,I will try your suggestion. Thank you

 

[Mike Casselton]

This will explain it.

 

[muleman69]

A friend of mine has an issue with his factory Rem 700 in 300 Win Mag. The gun shot great with both factory and hand loads. No issues, no problems, no PSI signs....just an all around good gun. He decided to have a Brake installed. Now, big PSI signs. The bolt opens ok, but you can hardly pull the bolt back. Reloads, factory rounds, new brass, fired brass, light loads, heavy loads...all create an issue when pulling the bolt back. I had him fire some factory rounds with and without the break installed....same thing. I was thinking it was a sticky ejector (plunger), but, wouldn't that cause a problem with unfired brass , too? I haven't had a chance to check the ejector, yet.

Anyway, i can't figure it out, and his smith says everything checks out OK.

Any ideas????


Thanks,
Tod

Tod I didn't mean to high jack your post but I thought I was having one of the same problems. Have you and your friend solved the problem?

 

[JPB3]

IF he is having an primary extraction issue it wasn't caused by the installation of a brake

 

[4xforfun]

Well...here we are. My friend got the gun back from the smith. The smith said that there was nothing wrong with it.
Now that it is back, the owner found two things.

1st...the stamping on the BBL is now in a different spot. He doesn't remember where it was BEFORE the FIRST trip to the smith to get the brake installed, but he said it was DEFINATELY nealy on the top of the bbl ( 12 noon) after the brake was installed and they were having issues. NOW..the lettering is near the stock line where I think it should be.,

2) Now that he got it back, it works fine. ZERO binding and all loads work great.

Makes me wonder...was the tube not on tight...and if not, would THAT cause the issue?

Anyway...all's well that ends well. BIG thanks for all the help and ideas. I passed all of this info on to the owner and he then passed it on to the smith. Maybe...in secret...one of you was right!!

Thanks again,
Tod

 

[joshb]

Well, I’m not going to say I was right. I thought, for sure, I was going to win that lottery! My confidence was shattered!

 

[msinc]

Sounds more to me like the chamber had a bad spot in it and he shouldered it back and did a slight rechamber to get rid of the problem. That is to say the barrel may have been set back almost or a little over a full turn, that is why it didn't end up back in the exact same spot.
If there was a bad spot, such as galling, the brass of the fired case would flow into the galled area of the chamber and give you that click or funny spot/feel when working the bolt.
I am a proponent of bore scopes, not just to separate the cleaners that work from those that don't, but for just such times like this. I just received a rifle back from the Remington repair shop in which all they did was throat a barrel that had a severely out of square chamber.
This thing was so bad that it had rifling on one half of the chamber all the way up to the case mouth. It now has about .020" or so of throat on one half and about .120" or so on the other.
I talked to them on the phone and made it perfectly clear the problem, how I found it and that it needed a new barrel. The "gunsmith" acknowledged and said. "we will take care of it".....and sent it back half a$$ed as if it would never be looked at with a borescope again. At least your gunsmith probably knows you don't have one.

Edit: Sorry, I forgot to answer your question...no, the barrel cannot cause the issue you had from being loose. Not unless it was so ridiculously loose you could feel it, and then there would be other problems. I doubt you would have missed a loose barrel that bad. As far as being just a little loose, as in needing or maybe could stand being turned tight an additional 15 or 20 degrees...no, that wouldn't do it either.

 

[4xforfun]

Sounds more to me like the chamber had a bad spot in it and he shouldered it back and did a slight rechamber to get rid of the problem. That is to say the barrel may have been set back almost or a little over a full turn, that is why it didn't end up back in the exact same spot.
If there was a bad spot, such as galling, the brass of the fired case would flow into the galled area of the chamber and give you that click or funny spot/feel when working the bolt.
I am a proponent of bore scopes, not just to separate the cleaners that work from those that don't, but for just such times like this. I just received a rifle back from the Remington repair shop in which all they did was throat a barrel that had a severely out of square chamber.
This thing was so bad that it had rifling on one half of the chamber all the way up to the case mouth. It now has about .020" or so of throat on one half and about .120" or so on the other.
I talked to them on the phone and made it perfectly clear the problem, how I found it and that it needed a new barrel. The "gunsmith" acknowledged and said. "we will take care of it".....and sent it back half a$$ed as if it would never be looked at with a borescope again. At least your gunsmith probably knows you don't have one.

Edit: Sorry, I forgot to answer your question...no, the barrel cannot cause the issue you had from being loose. Not unless it was so ridiculously loose you could feel it, and then there would be other problems. I doubt you would have missed a loose barrel that bad. As far as being just a little loose, as in needing or maybe could stand being turned tight an additional 15 or 20 degrees...no, that wouldn't do it either.

So...how would adding a Brake create a "bad spot" in the chamber?

 

[msinc]

So...how would adding a Brake create a "bad spot" in the chamber?

A brake, any brake, whether installed or removed, left alone or adjusted/tampered with could not cause the problem you were describing with the bolt sticking. Even if the brake was somehow miss-installed, it's at the muzzle and I just don't see how it, by and of itself, could change or cause a problem for the bolt/receiver. There is a remote possibility that the barrel was removed, a brass center turned to carefully fit in the chamber {looks like a solid brass case with no bullet} was used to center the barrel. This prevents having to chuck it up on the threads or chamber area and risk marking up the barrel. This method is old school but it works and is especially useful for cutting muzzle threads because the barrel is held in the lathe centered on the chamber on one end and a live center at the muzzle. This ensures {if it's done right} the threads are on the same axis as the bore. Anytime you put something in the chamber you risk some type of damage. Not saying this happened, but it could and we don't know.
You had to have some kind of issue with either the chamber and/or the receiver/bolt to cause the bolt sticking or hanging problem you described. If all was well, simply turning the barrel a little more would not change this. You are saying you got the rifle back, it works okay now and the barrel appears "turned" from where you last remembered it to be. I routinely remove and reinstall barrels all the time and they go right back where they belong unless something is intentionally changed. If I have to R&R a barrel I put a witness mark on it so I am certain it goes back in the same place. The only time the barrel does not go back to it's original location is when the shoulder is cut back to change it. If the shoulder was cut back the barrel will have to be rechambered so the headspace is correct.
What we don't know is what else has happened to this rifle. There had to be something, why else would the barrel now be located in a different place. My suggestion of the receiver being twisted could still stand. You took it back and maybe he fixed it. That's a big if because, while it can be done, most guys that would twist it in the first place probably wouldn't know how to "untwist" it...if they knew about that I would think they would have never let it twist to start with. But, stranger things have happened.
I don't know if it's worth worrying about at this point...you got it back and am I correct to understand it appears to be fixed?? If so then good. It sounds like you are not going to get a straight answer from the smith...something went on, but we don't know what. Whether or not you choose to recommend this smith again or use his services again is up to you. I mean, it works so okay, but it's kind of an insult to be told something that you know is not true. Something happened.
If you saved any of the cases that were fired in this thing when it was sticking you should be able to see the galled spot if there even is one and you haven't resized the cases. You have to understand, all this is guessing at something described, not seen and based on my experience with other rifles.

 

[4xforfun]

A brake, any brake, whether installed or removed, left alone or adjusted/tampered with could not cause the problem you were describing with the bolt sticking. Even if the brake was somehow miss-installed, it's at the muzzle and I just don't see how it, by and of itself, could change or cause a problem for the bolt/receiver. There is a remote possibility that the barrel was removed, a brass center turned to carefully fit in the chamber {looks like a solid brass case with no bullet} was used to center the barrel. This prevents having to chuck it up on the threads or chamber area and risk marking up the barrel. This method is old school but it works and is especially useful for cutting muzzle threads because the barrel is held in the lathe centered on the chamber on one end and a live center at the muzzle. This ensures {if it's done right} the threads are on the same axis as the bore. Anytime you put something in the chamber you risk some type of damage. Not saying this happened, but it could and we don't know.
You had to have some kind of issue with either the chamber and/or the receiver/bolt to cause the bolt sticking or hanging problem you described. If all was well, simply turning the barrel a little more would not change this. You are saying you got the rifle back, it works okay now and the barrel appears "turned" from where you last remembered it to be. I routinely remove and reinstall barrels all the time and they go right back where they belong unless something is intentionally changed. If I have to R&R a barrel I put a witness mark on it so I am certain it goes back in the same place. The only time the barrel does not go back to it's original location is when the shoulder is cut back to change it. If the shoulder was cut back the barrel will have to be rechambered so the headspace is correct.
What we don't know is what else has happened to this rifle. There had to be something, why else would the barrel now be located in a different place. My suggestion of the receiver being twisted could still stand. You took it back and maybe he fixed it. That's a big if because, while it can be done, most guys that would twist it in the first place probably wouldn't know how to "untwist" it...if they knew about that I would think they would have never let it twist to start with. But, stranger things have happened.
I don't know if it's worth worrying about at this point...you got it back and am I correct to understand it appears to be fixed?? If so then good. It sounds like you are not going to get a straight answer from the smith...something went on, but we don't know what. Whether or not you choose to recommend this smith again or use his services again is up to you. I mean, it works so okay, but it's kind of an insult to be told something that you know is not true. Something happened.
If you saved any of the cases that were fired in this thing when it was sticking you should be able to see the galled spot if there even is one and you haven't resized the cases. You have to understand, all this is guessing at something described, not seen and based on my experience with other rifles.

The "brass center " thing could be. But like I said....it's not my gun and not my gunsmith... I looked at it for about 3 min when he first noticed the problem and he laid it on my parts counter. I told him to try a few reduced loads and factory ammo, and he left. All of the other info I got about the gun was second hand by phone ...I never saw the gun again. I took it upon myself to post here and try help the guy because we were both "stumped". and.....IT'S DEER SEASON!!!

Again...thanks everyone for the help.

 

[msinc]

The "brass center " thing could be. But like I said....it's not my gun and not my gunsmith... I looked at it for about 3 min when he first noticed the problem and he laid it on my parts counter. I told him to try a few reduced loads and factory ammo, and he left. All of the other info I got about the gun was second hand by phone ...I never saw the gun again. I took it upon myself to post here and try help the guy because we were both "stumped". and.....IT'S DEER SEASON!!!

Again...thanks everyone for the help.

One thing I didn't put in the last post...that brass center that I am calling "old school" is really supposed to be brass, but sometimes guys use steel. I have done it and it usually doesn't result in any harm if you are careful. The center used in the chamber, if you choose to do it this way, doesn't turn in relation to the chamber much. It is really just used as a locator to get the barrel on center. The barrel should be driven by a lathe dog and the center is in the chuck...the result is that the center can only turn about a 1/4 of a turn or so in relation to the chamber. It's also under no pressure so to speak, so it should result in no harm......but it doesn't always work that way. It is a very good accurate method to get the muzzle threads in perfect alignment with the bore.