another reason to anneal

[Benchrest Braxton]

I haven’t ever seen this mentioned before, so thought I would share my recent experience with you guys.

I finally got started reloading on my lawton 8500 338-408 cheytac build that is a new rifle to me, but its an older rifle build that used to be my gunsmiths long range hunting rig.

He gave me a bunch of multiple fired jamison and a mix of virgin and once fired bertram.

he formed this brass from virgin 408 cheytac brass, which involves the use of multiple bushings to obtain the proper size.

upon tinkering and taking some measurements with some of the brass he gave me I noticed that on all the fired brass, that a bullet would not drop down into the case, not even close, could have easily just loaded a bullet again into them with no sizing.

the neck clearance on the reamer states 372, loaded neck diameter is 364. so 8 thou of clearance should be plenty, what was going on. measured OD of once fired brass is 369, so thought that was a little odd, but still, 5 thou of clearance should still be adequate

I first noticed that the brass from the forming process was quite long, most of it ranging from the maximum reamer spec and some even +10 thou over it.

I thought I had found my issue, the neck was likely butting up against the chamber and was crimping itself over upon firing.

so I trimmed one back, verified with the borescope that there clearance there. should be good to go.

test fired a round, same problem, bullet was still not dropping in.

now i was stumped, and started to think it was an issue with the chamber, maybe the top of the neck area was miscut.

I decided to run a piece of virgin through the amp annealer to see what would happen. Well, found the problem, bullet drops cleanly into fired brass now.

Only thing I can think of is that the maybe the brass wasn’t annealed from the factory, and then the multiple step down bushing ops probably hardened the crap out of the necks and was getting some aggressive spring back.

Whether this would make a difference accuracy/precision wise in this situation, not sure, i don’t plan on testing it. Maybe there was enough clearance upon firing, then the brass was springing back after the bullet left the neck.

I do know from reading on here that you should enough clearance to freely drop a bullet into a once fired piece of brass.

So to me, this is another consideration for making annealing part of your brass prep

 

[Gargoyle]

Only thing I can think of is that the maybe the brass wasn’t annealed from the factory, and then the multiple step down bushing ops probably hardened the crap out of the necks and was getting some aggressive spring back.

Sounds legit. Before I knew about the benefits of annealing, my work hardened brass was a bear to seat. Since I always blame others first for my mistakes, I called RCBS and chewed them out for their defective die. As always RCBS customer service was too nice about it and offered a new die, so I hung up on them. I annealed the same brass and the bullets seated with much less resistance. I called RCBS and told them, "Thanks for Nothing, I figured out why my non-annealed 8 times fired brass was hard to load!"

Whether this would make a difference accuracy wise in this situation, not sure, i don’t plan on testing it. Maybe there was enough clearance upon firing, then the brass was springing back after the bullet left the neck.

Accuracy no. Precision, yes. That's what all the fuss about neck tension is about, right?

I do know from reading on here that you absolutely should enough clearance to freely drop a bullet into a once fired piece of brass.

Can you please elaborate on this? My bullets only just stand in the case before seating.

So to me, this is another consideration for making annealing part of your brass prep

Some experts recommend after every firing.

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

Sounds legit. Before I knew about the benefits of annealing, my work hardened brass was a bear to seat. Since I always blame others first for my mistakes, I called RCBS and chewed them out for their defective die. As always RCBS customer service was too nice about it and offered a new die, so I hung up on them. I annealed the same brass and the bullets seated with much less resistance. I called RCBS and told them, "Thanks for Nothing, I figured out why my non-annealed 8 times fired brass was hard to load!"

Accuracy no. Precision, yes. That's what all the fuss about neck tension is about, right?

Can you please elaborate on this? My bullets only just stand in the case before seating.

Some experts recommend after every firing.

from what i read, I believe most experts would recommend to have at least 4-5 thou total clearance in the neck over a loaded round.

if you can’t get your bullets to drop in a once fired case, wouldn’t that now be the same thing as having a chamber with not enough clearance?

 

[R.Morehouse]

Cool Gun............

 

[Gargoyle]

from what i read, I believe most experts would recommend to have at least 4-5 thou total clearance in the neck over a loaded round.

if you can’t get your bullets to drop in a once fired case, wouldn’t that now be the same thing as having a chamber with not enough clearance?

Can you show me a pic of this drop in the case?

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

Can you show me a pic of this drop in the case?

the bullet should slide right through the neck into the bottom of the case with very little resistance

 

[Gargoyle]

Cool Gun............

Damn straight!

 

[Gargoyle]

the bullet should slide right through the neck into the bottom of the case with very little resistance

This is a new one on me.

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

This is a new one on me.

this is my understanding of it, anyways.

 

[46and2]

Can you show me a pic of this drop in the case?

Dude, a bullet should slip into the neck of a fired case neck.

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

Cool Gun............

it’s sentimental to me, I was fascinated with it from first sight at my gunsmiths back in 2010 when I was 18 and getting into long range. Fast forward, I was given the opportunity to buy it 2 years ago and I did so with zero hesitation.

It is Kevin Cram of montour county rifles old hunting rig, it has killed a pile of deer and larger wayyyy out there.

 

[46and2]

it’s sentimental to me, I was fascinated with it from first sight at my gunsmiths back in 2010 when I was 18 and getting into long range. Fast forward, I was given the opportunity to buy it 2 years ago and I did so with zero hesitation.

It is Kevin Cram of montour county rifles old hunting rig, it has killed a pile of deer and larger wayyyy out there.

I knew that I had seen that rifle before. It was on his avatar on a forum that I do not visit anymore.

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

I knew that I had seen that rifle before. It was on his avatar on a forum that I do not visit anymore.

look more familiar?

 

[Gargoyle]

Dude, a bullet should slip into the neck of a "fire[d]" case neck.

Ah, that is an operative word.

 

[Webster]

I haven’t ever seen this mentioned before, so thought I would share my recent experience with you guys.

I finally got started reloading on my lawton 8500 338-408 cheytac build that is a new rifle to me, but its an older rifle build that used to be my gunsmiths long range hunting rig.

He gave me a bunch of multiple fired jamison and a mix of virgin and once fired bertram.

he formed this brass from virgin 408 cheytac brass, which involves the use of multiple bushings to obtain the proper size.

upon tinkering and taking some measurements with some of the brass he gave me I noticed that on all the fired brass, that a bullet would not drop down into the case, not even close, could have easily just loaded a bullet again into them with no sizing.

the neck clearance on the reamer states 372, loaded neck diameter is 364. so 8 thou of clearance should be plenty, what was going on. measured OD of once fired brass is 369, so thought that was a little odd, but still, 5 thou of clearance should still be adequate

I first noticed that the brass from the forming process was quite long, most of it ranging from the maximum reamer spec and some even +10 thou over it.

I thought I had found my issue, the neck was likely butting up against the chamber and was crimping itself over upon firing.

so I trimmed one back, verified with the borescope that there clearance there. should be good to go.

test fired a round, same problem, bullet was still not dropping in.

now i was stumped, and started to think it was an issue with the chamber, maybe the top of the neck area was miscut.

I decided to run a piece of virgin through the amp annealer to see what would happen. Well, found the problem, bullet drops cleanly into fired brass now.

Only thing I can think of is that the maybe the brass wasn’t annealed from the factory, and then the multiple step down bushing ops probably hardened the crap out of the necks and was getting some aggressive spring back.

Whether this would make a difference accuracy/precision wise in this situation, not sure, i don’t plan on testing it. Maybe there was enough clearance upon firing, then the brass was springing back after the bullet left the neck.

I do know from reading on here that you should enough clearance to freely drop a bullet into a once fired piece of brass.

So to me, this is another consideration for making annealing part of your brass prep

I'm sure the brass was annealed at the factory. Not familiar with your numbers. Necking from 408 to 338 is a lot of cold working. Anneal away.

 

[Dave M.]

I haven’t ever seen this mentioned before, so thought I would share my recent experience with you guys.

I finally got started reloading on my lawton 8500 338-408 cheytac build that is a new rifle to me, but its an older rifle build that used to be my gunsmiths long range hunting rig.

He gave me a bunch of multiple fired jamison and a mix of virgin and once fired bertram.

he formed this brass from virgin 408 cheytac brass, which involves the use of multiple bushings to obtain the proper size.

upon tinkering and taking some measurements with some of the brass he gave me I noticed that on all the fired brass, that a bullet would not drop down into the case, not even close, could have easily just loaded a bullet again into them with no sizing.

the neck clearance on the reamer states 372, loaded neck diameter is 364. so 8 thou of clearance should be plenty, what was going on. measured OD of once fired brass is 369, so thought that was a little odd, but still, 5 thou of clearance should still be adequate

I first noticed that the brass from the forming process was quite long, most of it ranging from the maximum reamer spec and some even +10 thou over it.

I thought I had found my issue, the neck was likely butting up against the chamber and was crimping itself over upon firing.

so I trimmed one back, verified with the borescope that there clearance there. should be good to go.

test fired a round, same problem, bullet was still not dropping in.

now i was stumped, and started to think it was an issue with the chamber, maybe the top of the neck area was miscut.

I decided to run a piece of virgin through the amp annealer to see what would happen. Well, found the problem, bullet drops cleanly into fired brass now.

Only thing I can think of is that the maybe the brass wasn’t annealed from the factory, and then the multiple step down bushing ops probably hardened the crap out of the necks and was getting some aggressive spring back.

Whether this would make a difference accuracy/precision wise in this situation, not sure, i don’t plan on testing it. Maybe there was enough clearance upon firing, then the brass was springing back after the bullet left the neck.

I do know from reading on here that you should enough clearance to freely drop a bullet into a once fired piece of brass.

So to me, this is another consideration for making annealing part of your brass prep

I think more than likely the brass was fired multiple times and sized so many times that it was crazy hard and you were not getting much expansion. Likely impossible the brass was manufactured without being annealed. Actually, the brass was likely annealed at several stages of its original manufacturing process.

 

[Dave M.]

Can you show me a pic of this drop in the case?

It is exactly like you are picturing. The new bullet should easily drop inside of a fired case. No video or picture could be more clear than that, correct?
Dave

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

I think more than likely the brass was fired multiple times and sized so many times that it was crazy hard and you were not getting much expansion. Likely impossible the brass was manufactured without being annealed. Actually, the brass was likely annealed at several stages of its original manufacturing process.

the once fired bertram pieces did it too, so the hardness was purely from the 408-338 necking down ops.

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

It is exactly like you are picturing. The new bullet should easily drop inside of a fired case. No video or picture could be more clear than that, correct?
Dave

In your experience dave, should a bullet be able to drop down a once fired piece of brass?

 

[Gargoyle]

It is exactly like you are picturing. The new bullet should easily drop inside of a fired case. No video or picture could be more clear than that, correct?
Dave

I don't get it, Dave.