another question on equipment for 6br loading

[mhdick]

OK, I have searched for this information prior to asking on loading for 6br.
I want to get into 6br. I’ll primarily be shooting prairie dogs, paper or other target shooting and would like to get into some “distance” shooting anywhere up to 700 when I am able to do so from a skill level. I have been loading 223, 22-250 and 30-06 several years.
I currently own the following loading equipment:
Following is all RCBS: “O” press, balance beam scale, powder flow measure, trickler, hand primer, trim-pro set up with a drill to increase speed. Also have digital caliper from cabelas, chamfer/debur tool. have Hornaday and Nosler reloading manuals.

What other EQUIPMENT should I get for reloading this cartridge (not components)?

I know I NEED:
Sizing dies (do I get FL, neck ??? and why)
Seating die
Which ones are recommended with my already owned equipment and why?

I also read about a LOT of other stuff (some say I NEED, some say it’s nice…). Do I need stuff to measure/set up dies properly. What of this stuff is important and WHY:
Bullet comparator
OAL guage
Concentricity guage
Micrometer
??other stuff??
(don’t mention chrony – I know that would be GREAT and important, but not in this post)

Yes, I want to shoot as accurately as possible, but I’m also not going to spend $500 on more equipment to shoot another cartridge. How important is that “extra” stuff to most guys who are not shooting matches but still want to maybe shoot a pdog out to 600 yards?

thanks for sharing your knowledge and opinions

 

[zedsdead]

As far as dies go, you can't go wrong with either the Forster benchrest or Redding type-s set. I have both and both load nice ammo.

Most of the stuff you listed would be nice to have but you NEED some sort of headspace gauge that tells you how far you're setting your shoulder back. The Hornady set is fairly inexpensive and works well. Sizing your brass the minimum amount necessary will make it last longer. Since Lapua and Norma brass are not cheap, you'll want to get as many firings as possible out of your brass.

I would hold off on the rest of the 'nice' stuff and instead spend my money on bullets, powder and primers.

Good luck and I hope you enjoy your 6BR as much as I'm enjoying mine.

Jason

 

[deadlyswift]

Me I like the redding type s neck bushing comp dies. They are just over $200. The comp dies aren't really needed. I'm just one of those guy's that prefer to neck size so thats what I do. (I don't want to open that can of worms ;D). Anyway you can get the redding type s neck bushing 3 die set at midway for $91.99. At some point you will have to bump the shoulder back if you choose to neck size. This set has a body die to do just that. I would suggest that you go with some kind of bushing die so that you can control neck tension. This is very important to me. Redding is just what I have had great luck with. Froster would be my second chocie, but again it's just my opinon. I have no real facts on witch is better.

A bullet comparator, IMO is a must have. To accurately messure oal witch should be done off the ogive and not the tip. They aren't that expensive.

Oal guage isn't a absolutely must but probably a good Idea to get one. You can find the oal many different ways but I just find the Oal gauges are quicker and easier. Again not very expensive.

Concentricty gauge isn't necessary unless you decide to really get down and drity. They are nice to have but many shoot really good in the varmint fields not using one. It's just another one of the prefered things for me. Yes it has made a difference in how good of ammo I can produce. But again not one of those got to have items.

Same goes for the micrometer. It is a very useful too, but I have shot well in the past with out the use of one. Then again I wasn't shooting past 300yrd then either. Once out to 500 600 or further I found the concentricty gauge and micrometer a tool that I needed. Not something to get started with. Maybe hold out on those until you decide just how good you want to shoot. Also these two Items can be bought for a not so expensive to very expensive depending on just what you want. I used the buy once cry once rule when I purchased mine. So yes I took the expensive route.

All this is just what I do and see that are a must have for me. Doesn't mean it's what you have to do. Only you know exactly how good of ammo you want to make. So best thing I can say is to understand what tools are used for what purpose and if they are needed for the type of accuracy you desire.

One tool that you mention that you already have, but it would be a good idea to upgrade is the K&M chamfer tool. This will give u a very even and striaght chamfer on the mouth of your necks. Very good tool and not very expensive at all I think it runs somewhere around $28.
Mark

 

[NorCalMikie]

IMHO, go with the Forster Precision Bushing Bump Die. Bump the shoulders back maybe .001 or .002 and size the neck with the bushing of your choice.
Throw in a body only size once in a while when the case starts getting snug in the chamber and
your brass will last a "long" time. The bullet comparator so you'll know how what length to set your bullets, the OAL gauge set so you'll know how much you've bumped your shoulders back and you should be set. As far as a seater die, I use and have modified my RCBS Comp seaters to fit the 6BR case. Drilled out the seater stems to use on the VLD Bergers and everything works out great. All the extra stuff you "just have to have" can come later.

 

[JohnHenry]

With repeated firings w/o sizing, your fired brass will develop a "memory" and become increasingly more difficult to consistently resize. I have found that I get improved accuracy by full length resizing slightly(.001-.002) each time. I would recommend sending a few fired cases to Harrell's Precision and they will provide a full length bushing die matched to your chamber plus a bump gauge to help you set-up the die to slightly bump the shoulder(.001-.002). The Harrell's die costs $70. For bullet seating using your press, I would recommend the Redding Competition bullet seater #55317(approx. $95 at Sinclair). Best there is in my opinion if you are not going to use an arbor press. I would also recommend a $19 Sinclair No.1 bullet comparator(#09-600) to measure changes in seating depth. It will work with your .224, .243, and .308 bullets.

 

[Moderator]

It's nice to have a Harrells' die with the neck-shoulder "collar" that lets you measure the ammount of shoulder bump. But you can get away with a zero-cost solution. Just take a sized, fired .45 acp case with the primer removed. Make sure it is nice and round and that the mouth is not dented or pitted. Slip this between your case and your calipers and it will contact right above the shoulder-body intersection. It's not super precise, but when you get the hang of it you can see .001, .0015, .002 bump etc.

LINK: http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2007/07/tech-tip-poor-mans-headspace-gauge/

These images show .45 acp gauge used to measure .0015 bump:

For 6BR dies I recommend a Wilson micrometer top inline seater and eaither a honed Forster FL die or a Redding Type S.

Trim your brass to 1.555 after one or two firings. Chamfer gently -- you don't need a deep cut. Inspect your Lapua brass flashholes but you do not need to ream the holes or recut the primer pockets.

For full-length sizing lube I like Ballistol applied with a patch. This cleans the necks as it lubes the case.

 

[JohnHenry]

The Harrell's bump gauge comes with the die at no extra cost. In fact, when I bought a used die recently w/o the gauge, I called them and they sent me one free. When I purchased a powder measure from them a number of years ago, they included an invoice with the measure telling me to try the measure and send a check if I liked it or return the measure if i did not. Good folks to deal with.

 

[UK]

mh, I Have all the variations of kit and will tell you what works best for me,
the redding competition neck bushing die-i always get less than half a thou runout on the neck and I personally like to only size the amout of the neck that has bullet shank in it, you cant control the amount of neck you size with the standard bushing die but it will probably do just as well.
you definately get less runout on the bullet with a wilson seater and arbor press, I have 2 redding comp seaters and the wilson cuts the runout by half over both the redding dies, though the redding is still better than anything else apart from the wilson
redding body die-I bump the cases 1 thou after 3 firings, I use a light load and can get away with 5 but do it after 3 and re-trim and rechamfer, you have all the powder handling kit you need so nothing there.
I use the larry willis inovative technologies headspace gauge, if you buy the sinclair bullet length sorting part, for their unit you can use the larry willis gauge to do this measurement as well, lastly you could get a redding instant indicator in 6br to check your seating depths, this is only worth doing if you have checked your bullets first, but the redding unit can measure the bullets and check your headspace as well so you could do without the larry willis unit but you do have to change over the internals to do different tasks
pricing- you said 500 dollars, redding comp nk die $100, body die $40, wilson seater $100 for the stainless micrometer unit, $50 for the standard seater, arbor press $100, larry willis headspace gauge $100 sinclair 6mm bullet insert about $10 redding instant indicator about $100-total $400-550 approx, you only need a concentricity checker if you are curious about the runout you are getting or your groups are bad.
hope this helps-as others have said just my opinion at the end of the day and what works for me.

 

[RonAKA]

I would suggest the following is all you really need to get started (in addition to what you have):

Forster Bump/Bushing Die with a .267 bushing - $53 Midway
Forster Micrometer Seating Die - $92 set including a full length sizer
Micrometer with vernier gauge to read to 1/10th thou (can be had for $20)

The Forster Bump/Bushing die does not come with an expander ball, and at least the batch of Lapua I got (older lot) was a bit tight. So it does not hurt to expand the neck on the unprimed brass. It can be ordered as an extra. Eventually you will likely need a full length sizing die, but in my opinion that does not have to be anything special.

I assume you have a Vernier gauge if you have a case trimmer. The .267 bushing should be about right if you get the older thicker Lapua brass. A .265 may be needed if it is the newer thinner stuff.

You don't really need anything special to set seating depths. Cut a case (one single cut will do) and use it to find the distance to the lands in your gun. Use one single bullet of a batch and measure the overall length. Then seat that same bullet by trial and error (starting long) to get the same overall length. Save that loaded cartridge to set the length of your seating die. A bit more info here, but you really don't need the gauges they talk about, just the vernier gauge and cut case. Note, that this length is just to the lands. You will have to then adjust the seating die to give you a jump or jam from this "zero" point. This is where the micrometer seating die comes in handy to set the seating relative to the 0 jump position.

http://www.larrywillis.com/OAL.html

After a few reloads you should set yourself up to anneal your brass. If done with a Lee holder in a drill, it can be done quite inexpensively. Here is a good article on how to do it. The only issue I have with the article is that it talks about heating to 650 F. I think that is not hot enough and you have to get up to 800 F for a few seconds to get the job done.

http://www.gun-tests.com/performance/jun96cases.html

 

[mhdick]

thanks for the info so far guys!!

Additional question: some have said they like to bump the shoulder back a bit each time (.001-002) or so. Can this be done with a FL sizing die consistently or how do you do this? do you neck size first, then bump the shoulder or what? thanks.
Then, I suppose you check it out with a headspace gauge?? Or, once you set your die, you're set (so you would ahve to check it at least the first time, right)?

thanks again!

 

[JohnHenry]

A full length bushing die e.g. Harrell's, Redding f.l."S" type, etc. will size the neck, bump the shoulder, and size the body all in one operation. Using a bump gauge, I measure the length of the fired case with the gauge positioned on the shoulder/ neck. One then by a little trial and error initially adjusts the die position relative to the shell holder to yield a measurement on the sized case that is typically .001-.002 less than the fired case. I verify my die setting using the bump gauge each time I reload a batch of cases just to be sure nothing has changed. The pictures included in the Moderator's post above illustrates how the gauge is utilized.

 

[RonAKA]

Additional question: some have said they like to bump the shoulder back a bit each time (.001-002) or so. Can this be done with a FL sizing die consistently or how do you do this? do you neck size first, then bump the shoulder or what? thanks.
Then, I suppose you check it out with a headspace gauge?? Or, once you set your die, you're set (so you would ahve to check it at least the first time, right)?

A simple FL sizing die sizes the neck, bumps the shoulder, and sizes the body all at the same time. You could adjust the die in the press so it only bumps the shoulder back .001 or so. However, you will size the neck at the same time. Most FL dies size the neck down to the very minimum, and you will have to use the expander ball to stretch the neck back out to something reasonable. This works the neck brass quite a bit, and most want to avoid that. That is the reason for the bump/neck bushing die like the Forster. It lets you independently size the neck to whatever diameter you want by selecting different neck bushing sizes, and setting the die in the press at different heights to vary the bump.

Another alternative is to get a Forster FL die and sent it to Forster and have them hone the neck out to the diameter you want. Costs about $10 plus shipping. However, picking the diameter is a bit of a trick, unless you already have a bushing die with different bushings to experiment. And, then you are kind of vulnerable to the brass changing. For example Lapua just reduced their brass diameter by about 0.002", so one of these custom FL dies could become less than ideal or even useless.

I don't see the need for an actual headspace gauge. Your gun is not changing. You just need to measure the shoulder to the case dimension before and after bumping to see how much the shoulder moves back. Here is a low cost way to do it.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2007/07/tech-tip-poor-mans-headspace-gauge/