Another cartridge question.

[bobcat93]

A very similar topic is being discussed,
Want to build a short-mid range rifle.
Do i want a
6.5 TCU
6.5 Grendel
6.5x 47 lapua.
I think the ability to use 223 brass is an important aspect i like.
6.5 TCU case capacity about 28gr.
The 6.5 grendel is what i want, with a 35gr case capacity, and the ability to pick up factory ammo.
As i said i have a 6br with a 39gr case capacity making the grendel redundant.
But a 6.5x 47 Lapua at 48 gr case capacity should be pushing the velocity in a nice node for 6.5 bullets. Perhaps better then the grendel?

This will be a little target/ hunting set up
As ive mentioned i really enoyj have a reduced power cartridge to shoot with is big brother.
223 rem-221 fb
17 rem-17fb
6.5 creed- ?
See where im heading..is it a wast of time and money..just keep shooting the creedmore.
Im looking for reduced power 6.5 creedmore with enough velocity im not wasting bullets on sub-par target performance. (50-200yrds)
What do i want to do?
Some cartridge are better off the starting line, some need distance to show their true colors.
Also shooting 50-200yrds do i want 6R, 5R, 3R rifling. ?

Some times this stuff is so confusing when you look at it to long , good judgment can fly right out the window..i have very little of in the first place.
The forum has been a blessing over the years in this aspect.
Thanks all

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

To Fill in, the "Small Gap" in my arsenal, I just bought, a 1-8 Twist, 22" SS, TIKKA, T-3X, in .22-250 Rem to Shoot, 60 gr V-Max & NBT's at, 3500-3650 FPS and 69 gr. TMK's ( or the CHEAP 75 gr Horn, BTHP Match ) whitch ever shoots Best for, LR Yotes and FUN Steel Practice to, 800 yds !
Still Have, my 6.5 Creed., Tikka,.. and Love It,.. w/ 130 ELD-M's !!
Got, 143 gr. ELD-X's for, Big Game.
IMO,.. you can Do pretty much "Everything Needed" with,.. those Two Cartridges and Proper Bullets !
Add in, a "Good" .22 LR Rifle and,.. Done !

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

@ Bobcat,..
If tired of Reloading, Buy yourself, a .223 Rem TIKKA Twisted for, Bullets that,.. YOU Like.
It's the "E-Z Button",.. IMO
Since I Like, a little More Speed / range and I like to, Hand Load ( Test Bullets ) , I went with, the .22-250

 

[swd]

The 6.5x47 is a really fine super accurate cartridge only a little behind the Creed in speed. Brass lasts forever. 140's burn around 39gr of H4350. I did well with shooting F Class to 1000 yards. There's nothing to not like about it.

 

[wkdickinson]

6BRA - super easy to tune, low-recoil, amazingly accurate. The one issue is the brass, you have to fire-form it. You can buy 6BRA brass from Alpha, but do a search on here before you do, so you know the issues you might have.

 

[SmokinJoe]

Try the 6TCU. I put together a 6X45 8 twist from a short action Sako that was gathering dust and really like it for white tail deer. Getting ready to put a 6X47L together also with 8 twist from a Sako L579 that has been gathering dust for years.

 

[Oso]

Bobcat - a voice of reason as I stare across a caliber collection that widely overlap including quite a few intermediary/micro cartridges. I have a variety of cartridges based on 222/223 parent case as well as Grendel variants. If you are locked into a .223 bolt face then 6TCU / 6.5TCU or even 6mm-.204 Ruger. If have ability to use Grendel boltface then this is better/more flexible answer.

I have bolt rifles and AR’s chambered in both 6ARC and 6.5 Grendel. The 6.5 Grendel is a great cartridge, but for a range gun the 6ARC has a better BC. If you are going to do a custom barrel you might spend some time thinking about what weight class bullets you plan to shoot. The standard 6ARC reamer / chamber is designed for the heaviest / longest 6mm bullets. If you plan to use 60gr-80gr bullets then perhaps less freebore.

 

[CJ6]

The 6.5 TCU can be pretty good. I run a 6.5x47 (6.5x222 mag) so somewhat similar in a XP for deer. It's pretty accurate with 120-129gr bullets.
I use Accurate 748 data powder in it

 

[bobcat93]

Today i have it narrowed down to the 6.5 grendel, and the 6.5 TCU.
What cartridge will perform better at what i call short range 50-150 yards. I have never shot any gun farther then 500yards.
Ive never had a need too, or been at a range that long. Other then AR at Camp Perry Summer competition..dieing in that summer heat.
I have a life time of experience with 223 rem, 223AI, 221, 22-250, 22lr
When i pick them up my fingers, and body already know what to do.
The cartridge i listed are all fantastic and fun.
But im burned out on the 22's.
I shoot my 22lrs often, i probably shoot 500rds a week 4 to 5 months out of the year.
Just standing by by back door trying to tighten up on 3" shoot-n-c targets i cardboard to an old tree stump.@ 45yards. With my winchester 69
No so easy for a shaky old man.
I feel like Clint Eastwood at the beginning of unforgiven. Haha..i keep missing untill i grab the scatter gun .
Oh!, all my reloading and shooting equipment was stolen out of a storage unit this summer about 60-80k$ worth and i have a pile of basic tools left.and thats it.pretty sweet deal.
So that was a fun experience..insurance wont cover it, and the cops didnt do shit.
Its alot to digest for any shooter.
Im old now, im not starting all over again..
I can only afford to shoot a few rifles now. In my retirement due to income and cost restrictions
Im slowly getting set back up to load a hand full of cartridges from those bushwackers, and scoundrel who rip me off.
I assembled the ultimate 17FB franken rifle. I built it on an old savage model 12 action.
Its clunky, and has its moments but i absolutely love that rifle.
(Ya know im surgical with it jake) Denzel-
That rifle started life
As a 223rem so a savage pre-fit from pac-nor and bam! Baby im shooting 6.5 TCU. But pac-nor doesnt offer 6.5TCU
A 6.5 grendel would probably require a new build and lots of money i simply dont have any more. It may work in a savage model 12 action originally 223 rem with a barrel and bolt head
Brass, dies
Im not cry-n about it. Im new to retirement and my wallet has a padlock on it now
So by the sounds of it i want a 6.5 TCU
Something to make the (PING) more loud and whack those little critters

I have the (redding rem 223AI improved 30° neck bushing die set.). can i use that for 6.5 TCU?
I kind of had to verbally work thru this.
It was a big mental hairball i had to hack out all over the forum.
Maybe you guys dont get like that but i do..
I read so many posts, comparisons, articles
Just to block out the insanity going on now in our world its really a screwed up coping mechanism
I find my self spending way, waaaaaay to much time in my head then with others .

If the set of dies i have will work with 6.5 TCU
Then i only need a barrel
That world be awesome...that alone tells me its not probably gonna work
Ugh!

 

[Oso]

I shoot a 6x45AI and 300HAM’R. For the 6TCU (6x45AI) it is a straightforward fireform conversion. However, for the 300HAM’R requires cutting off the case neck of 223 donor brass to provide enough room for fitting mag length. Not sure how much case trim will be required for 6.5 bullet fit. If you don’t have a magazine restriction and you are going to be looking at a custom reamer then you might consider necking down the 300HAM’R cases. Starline sales the 300HAM’R brass.

There is an obscure TCU variant that might help. It is the 277 Wolverine, which is a .277 cal version of these TCU style cartridges.

Wikipedia - 277 Wolverine

Handloader Magazine - 277 Wolverine article

277 Wolverine - Lee Die Set

Edit: In case you are planning to modify 6TCU dies. A few years ago I needed to open up the neck ID on a die and convert one to a bushing die. I got in contact with Jim Carstensen - JLP Precision. He is very good and reasonably priced. Might be worth a call to explore your options.

 

[bobcat93]

I made a typo (what a surprise) the dies i have are redding 223 rem improved 40° full length bushing die set.
They will work with the 6 or 6.5 TCU. cartridge
Thank gosh as i just checked the price. About 260$ now ..ouch!
And preferred barrels offers the barrel.
in business..and to think i was so ready to order a custom action..i stopped before i hit the place order button. Hahaha...i know im a wimp

 

[Liven The Dream]

Dasher ! Lots of Brass these days . Easy tune .
Pages of info right here ?

 

[bobcat93]

I remember reading forum post here, when those cartridges were just getting started.
I was green to the level of case work back then and to be honest those cartridges were intimidating.
There was neck turning, false shoulders, you had to get that bump in the neck, then blow out the case..the level of bench work that went into those cartridges was crazy..
Now thats all gone. With factory brass.
Im actually digging around in ballistic information. Heck i dont even know if the 6 or 6.5 TCU can do what i need.
I just watched a video how the 6.5 Grendel will maintain over a 1000ft lbs. Of energy out to about 300yrd.
That is perfect for slamming deer, and ill never get a shot beyond that my location.
For target fun with in 300yrds

I was thinking of using this bullet in a 6mm TCU
With a 24" barrel.

6MM 85 GR HPBT GameKing (SGK)

The Bulletsmiths®. Reloadable bullets for rifles and pistols designed for precision target shooting, hunting, and defense. Crafting a tradition of precision since 1947.

sierrabullets.com

Im not sure of the energy this cartridge can produce with a 6mm bullet

 

[bobcat93]

What i have figured out
i can put a barrel on my savage and i have brass, dies, powder, bullets for the 6mm tcu
And share some of the same components with my 6br.
That will cost me about 650$ to go ping ping

If i go 6.5 grendel, the least costly route is a howa mini in 6.5 grendel for about the same 650$
Plus+ scope, dies, brass.
Its considerably more. But not even close to a custom price.
And components could be shared with my 6.5 creed.
I do have glass with qr mounts i move around from different rifles.
Its cool to open a safe and see a bunch of expensive glass..in fact its a sorce of great pride with many of us.
I prefer everything i own to have more then one use or it doesnt stay in my life long.
I always confirm my rifle is hitting where i like before hunting, so im usually adjusting the scope.
It only takes minute to pull a rifle out. Unlock the scope and connect it to another rifle.
After all the money i spent on unnecessary tacticool gun parts.that have Q.D.
I might as well actually use them as intended.
Hahaha...(WOW!, THAT WAS A PERSONAL MENTAL BREAKTHROUGH IN ITSELF)
HAHAHA
I have to reintroduce myself
Hi group im Bobcat93 and im a gun part addict,
hahaha..sorry that could offend those in complete denial hahaha

 

[Oso]

If you decide on 6.5 Grendel and you aren’t in a rush then you can buy a Howa Mini barreled action from Brownells during a holiday sale and they may also have a 10%-15% off coupon, which you can also apply to sales price. I bought one not that long ago for $330 doing exactly this. One thing to note is that they offer two options on these Mini 1500 barreled action. The 20” barrel option is a medium heavy sporter that comes threaded, and a 22” barrel option that is a light sporter that is not threaded.

Good luck… can’t go wrong with either TCU or Grendel.

 

[JSH]

The 6.5TCU may limit your bullet selection because of mag length compared to OAL length of the cartridge with out loosing case capacity.

 

[thatguyshm]

Just to add confusion to the mix, a 6.8 spc in a bolt gun is just silly fun. I know it slightly eschews the same caliber small and large you're doing, but it sure is fun. 90gr TNTs are great for plinking, and there's plenty of specialized 6.8 bullets from hammer and cavity back for hunting, as well as factory ammo.

That being said, I love my 6x45 but I think your mid 30 gr capacity is really the sweet spot. When going with cartridges that are a little more niche, I look at bullet selection and what I want to do with it. I'd personally go with the 6.5 gren if you wanted to stick within the same caliber for your new build.

 

[bobcat93]

I cant do the SPC..i think that came out same time Grendel came out and those two were in a fight ..the Grendel grew popular and the SPC farted out.
(Only my opinion)
Now we have so many different cartridge cases you can move up in 2gr. Increments untill you find one you like..

I just looked it up again! ..the howa mini 6.5 Grendel, 6arc, 22arc 600$ walnut stock
Cool looking little rifle..could be nice, could be junk. Ive never held one
But a custom barrel is 687$ to my door.
Thats just stupid. Sounds about 200-250$ over priced unless it includes a new reamer with it.

 

[Oso]

Since we are spit balling here’s another intermediary cartridge in the 6-6.5mm zip code. The 6mm Max is based on 350 Legend case so uses .378 bolt face (.223 stronger boltface in AR), uses straight mags so no feed issues, and fits within AR mag length. Different way to skin a cat… competes directly with 6ARC/Grendel. This cartridge is geared toward running in AR and mitigating potential issues that Grendel case geometry may encounter in AR15.

6mm MAX cartridge

 

[std7mag]

I thought 50-200 yards was classified as short range.?

For those distances, I'd have a hard time trying to justify anything more than a 223 Rem.

Only issue that I've run into is getting good enough glass to spot the small holes. Especially at 200+ yards.