if 6 sec. in a given heat was perfit , would it help the brass to last longer and shoot better with only 3-4 sec? my thinking is it would help some over no annealing at all. i wanted to try annealing but did not want to ruin my brass. i thought if 6 sec. at a given heat was perfit then 3-4 sec. would help a little.
another annealing question
- Thread starter 686
- Start date
Guess it comes down to how you define perfection: best shooting vs. longest lasting!
If 6 seconds is perfect for your needs, I doubt it would shoot better or last longer with only 4 seconds.
Annealed brass will work-harden with continued use over time, and require annealing again down the road. If you're careful not to overheat (burn) it, any given case's head or sidewall will probably fail before the neck.
If 6 seconds is perfect for your needs, I doubt it would shoot better or last longer with only 4 seconds.
Annealed brass will work-harden with continued use over time, and require annealing again down the road. If you're careful not to overheat (burn) it, any given case's head or sidewall will probably fail before the neck.
Preacher
Gold $$ Contributor
The brass will anneal at the correct temp, if the heats not enough they won't anneal. If they are not left under the flame long enough, they will not anneal..
You just can't half way anneal a case, it either is or it isnt annealed........
You need that faint Blue line to appear just below the shoulder to be as good as it gets... Any more and you ruined the case, any less and you did nothing to it at all.............
You just can't half way anneal a case, it either is or it isnt annealed........
You need that faint Blue line to appear just below the shoulder to be as good as it gets... Any more and you ruined the case, any less and you did nothing to it at all.............
i see where some anneal after every shooting. if you correctley anneal one day ,load and shoot it the next . can you anneal it again? i understand not annealing it enugh and also getting to hot, but can you anneal after every shooting. can you do it to often? are you back to square one after it cools, then it is ok to anneal again? i am just trying to get a handle on this annealing. thanks
As long as the brass is not overheated when annealed their shouldn't be a downside. If it is overheated, which is very easy to do, then the brass will become too soft and accuracy may suffer. Brass only needs to get to 750F to 800F to be correctly annealed.
Yes most of them do. 750 is the top end of what i would run your annealing. What i look for is the heat ring that is created needs to just start down the neck and your gtg. If it doesnt get that far you didnt get it hot enough and if it runs down to much farther then you dont want to shoot them. They will be too soft. I focus the heat on the necks and nothing else.
What exactly does a "heat ring" look like?
I just got some 475 Tempilac and started annealing. I can consistantly get the Tempilac to melt 1/2 way down where I apply it at 7 seconds in the flame (.223 cases). However the shoulders just change to a slightly darker shade of copper (more orange in color). I am not getting the rainbow coloring that some are getting. Am I not getting the enough heat in them?
Thanks,
Mitch
I just got some 475 Tempilac and started annealing. I can consistantly get the Tempilac to melt 1/2 way down where I apply it at 7 seconds in the flame (.223 cases). However the shoulders just change to a slightly darker shade of copper (more orange in color). I am not getting the rainbow coloring that some are getting. Am I not getting the enough heat in them?
Thanks,
Mitch
squirrelsnpr said:
Mitch
For starters your brass should be tumbled shiny clean first. Its easier to see the change in colors that way.
I've noticed some brass just does not get that "Lapua like" rainbow color when properly annealed. It will change colors but you'll never get the pretty colors you might see in other brass.
Not sure if thats a result of the metalurgy or its really not requiring annealing yet??
Hate to say it but the best way I found to learn is on some scrap brass. Intentionally destroy some by overheating and you'll get the hang of it quick ;D
Obviously not all brass requires the same amount of time in the heat. You'll need some experience to tell you when its done.
I threw away the Temp Stik after a few tries.
i just got the hang to annealing my brass. i use the lee chuck and case holder for my b&d drill mounted upsidedown in a vise. spin the case as i polish the neck and adjacent shouder and body with fine steel wool. apply flame from my propane torch and count one thousand one, etc. for about 7-12 sec for large cases(22-250 and up), pull the flame away and look at the shoulder body junction while still turning and a beautiful blue- grey lapua color appears and "flows" from the neck down to the lowest edge of the flame. if this is slow or absent, hit the case a few more seconds and the color usually appears nicely. indeed, some cases do require more heat. if too much time is used, i throw the case. wear a glove to remove the case as it is very hot (650+ degrees). i set the case on a steel plate and the cool almost at once. some cases seem to have some carbon crud that has to be scrapedsteelwooled off . i'm happy now.
has anyone tried just using the 750 degree tempilaq and putting it directly on the case neck? I dont know why the Hornady case annealing kit comes with the 425 degree. I read the directions and applied it where it needed to be, but to me it still leaves me unsure if my case necks are getting to the proper temp.
I was also wondering if anyone has tried using an infared heat gun sensor. I have used one in the past for another application and it worked well. I don't know if it will be able to pick up such a small heat signature, ie the case neck only.
If you dont know what I'm referring to here is a link
http://www.amazon.com/IRT0421-Non-Contact-Infrared-Thermometer-Targeting/dp/B0017L9Q9C
I was also wondering if anyone has tried using an infared heat gun sensor. I have used one in the past for another application and it worked well. I don't know if it will be able to pick up such a small heat signature, ie the case neck only.
If you dont know what I'm referring to here is a link
http://www.amazon.com/IRT0421-Non-Contact-Infrared-Thermometer-Targeting/dp/B0017L9Q9C
squirrelsnpr said:
Trust me, you don't need gizmos. You need expierience. Its really quite simple after you've done it awhile.
Get some scrap brass close to what you want to begin annealing. Get everything set up however you prefer.
Turn out the lights. Operating with just the flame of your torch start annealing and counting. When you see the brass just begin to glow red with no lights on you've gone to far. Throw it away and start again.
Should'nt take long to figure it the count for that particular brass..
Even with the lights off you should be able to see a dark ring walk down the shoulders as it heats up. Watch that ring and watch for red all the while counting. Pretty soon you'll have a count down that works.
After you feel comfortable you'll be able to do it with the lights on.
The Infared thermometer won't read on brass. I was toying with putting one in the automatic induction annealing machine I'm developing, but the emissivity of brass is extremely low. It's also not very practical as the IR thermometers only update every second or two and that's all it takes to overheat a case.
When the brass turns red the case has been overheated. You need to stop the heat just as soon as the brass changes color.
When the brass turns red the case has been overheated. You need to stop the heat just as soon as the brass changes color.
can a brass case be annealed after each firing? based on everything we know on the changes that brass goes through after firing and the physical changes that occur during REAL annealing...no! annealing produces structural changes in the brass. repeated firings are required before these changes can happen. try to anneal a once fired case and you will notice that you cannot get the color changes(the lapua grey-slate down to a slight reddish purple line on the body where the temperature drops below annealing temperature). you can't fix it if it aint broken. a friend advised me that he annealed his brass for YEARS by putting the cases in a large pan of water half way up the body and placing the pan in his OVEN at 450 for a few hours! he rarely had a split neck. how many times did he fire those cases?...not many. the observations noted on this forum re the COLOR changes in the brass are the key for us ameteur metallurgist. i continue to learn.
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.